Customer Challenging Quote Based on Friend Electrician's Comments

[BMacky]

I'm sure some of you have had this occur (in general, not to the extent you are about to read):

You quote a job (kitchen remodel) and the potential client (in my case a return customer's new wife) sends you email citing your quote is high, based on another electrician's (in my case the former remodel was done by the ex-husband, an electrician, who is now an estimator...whew!) review of my quote. I now find myself up at 1AM responding and justifying my quote.

The previous remodel was done in the early 90's, and I have no idea what sort of workmanship was involved and bet that I will have to re-wire at least a portion of the job. I am sure there will be needed changes in some of the layout, panel (arc faults taking up more space and re-positioning existing circuits, tying handles together, etc.) but they assume that if all the dedicated circuits are there, they shouldn't have to pay so much for the new kitchen. The layout is not changing dramatically, so it may be true for some of the circuits. From a $ position, I understand their point. From a position of experience, I never had a remodel where all the existing wiring was reusable, and I would be a little remiss thinking I could get away with using old wire from a liability standpoint.

Anyhow, I have suggested the option that I do this portion of the kitchen on a T&M basis. I think that would be fair, but I would like to hear from the field and see what you all would do in a case like this.

From a sales point I individually addressed all of the ex-husband's comments in his email which she shared with me. Not worried about that. Moreso what you guys may have done in similar situations. I generally boilerplate kitchen quotes regardless of the fact that there is "already" wiring in place. You just never know what you find in the walls after demo, and I would bet my liability insurer would say rip it out and start clean (which I explained to my customer). I am considering drafting an agreement that says any wiring not replaced by me is their future responsibility, should some issue arise. Feedback to that is aoppreciated.

The hard part is that the new husband is a friend and previous client, the GC is a friend that I am very loyal to and to top it off I really don't need the work. The job starts Wednesday, so I feel obligated to come through so the schedule can stay on track, vs. saying (as my wife chimed in) "That's fine, have your ex-husband do it!" He's already suggested finding them (cheap) help.

Thanks for reviewing and commenting!

Bob

 

[petersonra]

I think it is clear the ex is somehow still involved. It is probably best to thank her for the opportunity to quote the project and move on to something less likely to be a PITA.

 

[ceb58]

I think it is clear the ex is somehow still involved. It is probably best to thank her for the opportunity to quote the project and move on to something less likely to be a PITA.

Agreed, your in a no win situation. Even if you do get the job they will get the ex to come in and pick the job apart causing you more headaches. Give your price or as you said give them a T&M price. Tell them that is what it is and walk away.

 

[goldstar]

So far you've gotten 2 pieces of the best advice you'll ever get. This is one of those "Lets run it up the flag pole and see if it flies" situations. No matter what you do you're not going to come out ahead. So, it boils down to whether you really want the work or can afford to walk away. You can try the T & M approach with your estimate as a "not to exceed" price but I wouldn't commit to a lower price unless you're sure you can make $$.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

I'm in the camp of let it go.

 

[Ragin Cajun]

How fast can you RUN! (Away!)

RC

 

[Daja7]

Absolute no win sitution for you. I would simply explain, my price is based on my extensive experience and making sure this is a complete safe and quality project. I thank you for the opportunity but must withdraw at this point. Nothing good can come from this. If you do it T&M and you go over they will think you are trying to make a point, if you come in under it will be a see I new it was too high. Bow out gracefully.

 

[infinity]

Kindly say you've checked the numbers again and that's your original price was correct. There are some people who think that everything is negotiable. Hopefully they'll do you a favor and they'll find someone else.

 

[qcroanoke]

Kindly say you've checked the numbers again and that's your original price was correct.

Agreed.
Have you spoke to the GC? What are his thoughts?

 

[kwired]

Tell her if she wants a fixed price upfront, then you already gave her one that covers most of the commonly anticipated surprises.

If she wants to play it as it goes, there is a chance of saving some money, but there is also a chance of spending just as much or even more.

She has two basic choices, by the hour, plus materials and other costs, or by the job - and it must stay within specifications or the contract is invalid.

If she doesn't like either of those suggestions you don't want to work for her anyway.

 

[GUNNING]

Tell her if she wants a fixed price upfront, then you already gave her one that covers most of the commonly anticipated surprises.

If she wants to play it as it goes, there is a chance of saving some money, but there is also a chance of spending just as much or even more.

She has two basic choices, by the hour, plus materials and other costs, or by the job - and it must stay within specifications or the contract is invalid.

If she doesn't like either of those suggestions you don't want to work for her anyway.

Yup, you are not the electrician fairy. If you feel a need talk to the GC and explain you can not do this for a loss. I suspect the GC is having their own issues with this project.

80/20 rule, 20% of your projects take up 80% of your time and this is an 80 percenter. So now that you KNOW it's a hazard what are you going to do? If you walk and take care of the business you can stay in business. If you do the job time and money will be lost. Its a no brainer, run do not walk to the nearest exit.

 

[growler]

He's already suggested finding them (cheap) help.

Let the ex-husband find them some cheap help and don't worry about it.


I agree with Gunning that you are getting into a small job that's going to be a big problem. If you don't need the work those are best avoided.

 

[kwired]

Let the ex-husband find them some cheap help and don't worry about it.


I agree with Gunning that you are getting into a small job that's going to be a big problem. If you don't need the work those are best avoided.

Plus there is likely a reason he is the "ex" husband:happyyes: I certainly don't need to be a part of whatever that reason may be, if I don't get to contract this with my usual practices I am not doing it.

 

[growler]

Plus there is likely a reason he is the "ex" husband:happyyes: I certainly don't need to be a part of whatever that reason may be, if I don't get to contract this with my usual practices I am not doing it.

There really are plenty of jobs it's better to walk away from, normally it's hard to know which one's before they start. This one has enough red flags to leave alone.

A wife, a husband and an Ex all on the same job?

 

[GerryB]

Lots of good thoughts. Would just add IMO time & mat doesn't work to good when they are standing there watching you. "Leaving a little early today?"

 

[Ponchik]

Refer them to me. I will quote it at $12,437 and then your quote will look a lot better. Then you will get the job with your original quote.

As suggested earlier, run away from it. Kindly refuse the job.


Dear Mrs. Jones,

As a professional in my trade I refuse to participate in bad service.
My original quote includes many values that other basic electricians will not honor. Please let me know if you are interested in moving forward and I will email you the agreement with the quoted flat rate price.

 

[Fulthrotl]

You quote a job (kitchen remodel) and the potential client (in my case a return customer's new wife) sends you email citing your quote is high, based on another electrician's (in my case the former remodel was done by the ex-husband, an electrician, who is now an estimator...whew!) review of my quote. I now find myself up at 1AM responding and justifying my quote.
Bob

BEEEEPPPPP!!!! bula the buzzer says WHOA...

actually, it wasn't bula the buzzer, but jilly the spouse, who i was reading
this to, as it has that sort of horrible fascination that a bad car wreck does,
and you can't take your eyes off it, even tho it makes you nauseous.

jill stopped me at this point, refusing to hear more.... according to
my spouse, the only mistake you've made is staying up till 1 am.

her exact words were: "STOP! i don't need to hear any more....
his part in this is even responding to her email other than with
a polite note wishing her well on her project.

he's had a warning shot across the bow. if he goes further,
he deserves sinking."

sail on, sail on, sailor......

-ps... my skinny on it, is i'd not even want to do it for my quoted
price after that shopping email.... i'd retract my bid, and wish her
well..... it'll turn out fugly, no matter what happens.

 

[pjholguin]

BE nice and run really fast.I concur with rest of the group this is a headache waiting to happen.

PJHolguin

I'm sure some of you have had this occur (in general, not to the extent you are about to read):

You quote a job (kitchen remodel) and the potential client (in my case a return customer's new wife) sends you email citing your quote is high, based on another electrician's (in my case the former remodel was done by the ex-husband, an electrician, who is now an estimator...whew!) review of my quote. I now find myself up at 1AM responding and justifying my quote.

The previous remodel was done in the early 90's, and I have no idea what sort of workmanship was involved and bet that I will have to re-wire at least a portion of the job. I am sure there will be needed changes in some of the layout, panel (arc faults taking up more space and re-positioning existing circuits, tying handles together, etc.) but they assume that if all the dedicated circuits are there, they shouldn't have to pay so much for the new kitchen. The layout is not changing dramatically, so it may be true for some of the circuits. From a $ position, I understand their point. From a position of experience, I never had a remodel where all the existing wiring was reusable, and I would be a little remiss thinking I could get away with using old wire from a liability standpoint.

Anyhow, I have suggested the option that I do this portion of the kitchen on a T&M basis. I think that would be fair, but I would like to hear from the field and see what you all would do in a case like this.

From a sales point I individually addressed all of the ex-husband's comments in his email which she shared with me. Not worried about that. Moreso what you guys may have done in similar situations. I generally boilerplate kitchen quotes regardless of the fact that there is "already" wiring in place. You just never know what you find in the walls after demo, and I would bet my liability insurer would say rip it out and start clean (which I explained to my customer). I am considering drafting an agreement that says any wiring not replaced by me is their future responsibility, should some issue arise. Feedback to that is aoppreciated.

The hard part is that the new husband is a friend and previous client, the GC is a friend that I am very loyal to and to top it off I really don't need the work. The job starts Wednesday, so I feel obligated to come through so the schedule can stay on track, vs. saying (as my wife chimed in) "That's fine, have your ex-husband do it!" He's already suggested finding them (cheap) help.

Thanks for reviewing and commenting!

Bob

 

[kwired]

Lots of good thoughts. Would just add IMO time & mat doesn't work to good when they are standing there watching you. "Leaving a little early today?"

But since it is T&M all we need is to have the time recorded, down to every minute, and make sure all breaks are recorded, we can't pay you for when you were not working, and paying any off site staff or activity is not our problem.

If they are going to pull that "leaving a little early today?" thing you could tell them you will make up for it by showing up at 3AM tomorrow

 

[growler]

You quote a job (kitchen remodel) and the potential client (in my case a return customer's new wife) sends you email citing your quote is high, based on another electrician's (in my case the former remodel was done by the ex-husband, an electrician, who is now an estimator...whew!) review of my quote.The previous remodel was done in the early 90's.

So the ex-husband was actually the electrician that did the first remodel. I didn't catch that earlier.

Naturally he's going to think he did a fine job and nothing will need to be changed. A homeowner working on his own house always thinks that.

If they want an objective viewpoint they should have gotten another quote from another contractor.

If this guy (ex-husband ) wants to be involved then let him draw up a set of plans showing exactly what needs to be done and everything else will be extras ( additional charges ).