Following Code

[DBoone]

How many here would never do something against code, even if you knew that 999,999,999 out of 1,000,000,000 times there would never be an issue and the house wouldn't burst into flames and nobody would die, because ,well, if the code says I have to do it this way I'm going to do it this way?

A staple 14" from box, No AFCI breakers, one or two conductors over box fill, etc.

Now, how many drive over the speed limit daily? Aren't speed limits and electrical codes basically the same thing? The powers that be give us guidelines to abide by to increase safety?

I think it's more dangerous going 70 mph down the highway in a hunk of metal than being a conductor over box fill. Especially with all the distractions in a vehicle... Radio, phone, food, etc.

:bye:

 

[iwire]

When people tell me they never break the code I assume they are just flat out lying or just do not know all the code rules.

I have a great deal of respect for the code but I am not going to lie and say that I have never knowingly violated it.

I also become doubtful when people say they never wire to code minimums.

 

[LEO2854]

How many here would never do something against code, even if you knew that 999,999,999 out of 1,000,000,000 times there would never be an issue and the house wouldn't burst into flames and nobody would die, because ,well, if the code says I have to do it this way I'm going to do it this way?

A staple 14" from box, No AFCI breakers, one or two conductors over box fill, etc.

Now, how many drive over the speed limit daily? Aren't speed limits and electrical codes basically the same thing? The powers that be give us guidelines to abide by to increase safety?

I think it's more dangerous going 70 mph down the highway in a hunk of metal than being a conductor over box fill. Especially with all the distractions in a vehicle... Radio, phone, food, etc.

:bye:

I'm sure everyone overlooks something..:slaphead:

 

[augie47]

From an inspectors (and former electrician/contractor) I agree with you and have been know to "miscount" a box fill situation thus accidentally missing "one wire over"....
only difference between that and the 70 MPH is that once you get away with the 70, it's done. The Code violation lays out there to "catch you" forever in the event there is a follow-up investigation for any reason, such as a fire.

I've been to court and seen an attorneys approach of "so, there was this one Code violation ! How many more were not noted in the area where there was a fire ???"
"If this electrician (inspector) missed this violation, how many more did he miss that we didn't find ? "

 

[John120/240]

I am sure in our own homes that a lot of us push the limits of the code. On the job you try to follow the code because, well that is what your customer is paying for.

 

[iwire]

I am sure in our own homes that a lot of us push the limits of the code.

There are electrical codes that apply to electricians homes???? :jawdrop::jawdrop:

I did not know that.

 

[GoldDigger]

But since that kind of work would be DIY, we don't talk about that here.....
"I know noth-thing..."

 

[qcroanoke]

There are electrical codes that apply to electricians homes???? :jawdrop::jawdrop:

I did not know that.

(NFPA close enough) is what I go by.

 

[growler]

How many here would never do something against code, even if you knew that 999,999,999 out of 1,000,000,000 times there would never be an issue and the house wouldn't burst into flames and nobody would die, because ,well, if the code says I have to do it this way I'm going to do it this way?

A staple 14" from box, No AFCI breakers, one or two conductors over box fill, etc.
:bye:

You listed three possible code violations. Even if there was a problem and a fire investigation I doubt that anyone would notice a missing staple or maybe even the box fill unless that's where the fire started.

No AFCI breakers would probably stand out a bit more. If they had any idea of when the project was done and there were no "required" AFCI breakers that would lead to the question of permits and inspections and the competence of the installer.

I may speed while driving but I obey the speed limit in school zones. They tend to notice a bit more.

 

[K8MHZ]

I may speed while driving but I obey the speed limit in school zones. They tend to notice a bit more.

I live across the street from a school and I assure you that those of us that live on the school zone streets notice a bit more, too. :rant:

 

[cowboyjwc]

Yesterday I went on a apartment building rewire and I reached over the drywall and felt the cable clamp and noticed that it wasn't clamped, found that on 4 of the eight units we were to look at (only looked at 4) and said we're done. But, but, but. But what, what does the code say? Cable shall be bushed and secured to a metal box. Nit picky? You bet. Why nit pick? Because it's a simple one and yes we all miss something including inspectors so why not really make sure that you get the easy stuff done.

We've had this conversation before about why you have inspectors. So yeah, you put one to many conductors in a box, this time. Next time, two? How many becomes too many? Well guess what the code gives you that answer.

Panel clearance. Minimum 3'. Is 2' 11" close enough. Not in my book. Because pretty soon that becomes a matter of, well you gave it to me last time or you go to another city and start the "John let's us get away with that."

It becomes more of a question of morality or even character (character is what you do when no one else is watching). We used to have discussions like this where I used to work and they can be very entertaining. So the question was, you find a bag of drugs. You know how who to sell it to and you know you won't get caught and you are going to make $100,000. Do you sell it or turn it over to the police. Now remember that $100,000 is going to go a long way to help your family and that's why you work so hard now.

 

[K8MHZ]

There are electrical codes that apply to electricians homes???? :jawdrop::jawdrop:

I did not know that.

In Michigan here's how to get around the codes . Plop a couple big potted plants in plain site of the entrances. On each entrance door, place a sign that reads:

This is an Article 547 Agricultural Building

No Electrical Inspectors Allowed Beyond This Point

:lol:

 

[K8MHZ]

I am sure in our own homes that a lot of us push the limits of the code. On the job you try to follow the code because, well that is what your customer is paying for.

At my house, everything is temporary. :happyyes:

There is a lot of truth to that, too. Upgrades needed soon.

 

[GoldDigger]

At my house, everything is temporary. :happyyes:

Song title mentioned in a science fiction book by Cordwainer Smith:

" I need a temporary dog for a temporary job in a temporary place like Earth. "

 

[DBoone]

Yesterday I went on a apartment building rewire and I reached over the drywall and felt the cable clamp and noticed that it wasn't clamped, found that on 4 of the eight units we were to look at (only looked at 4) and said we're done. But, but, but. But what, what does the code say? Cable shall be bushed and secured to a metal box. Nit picky? You bet. Why nit pick? Because it's a simple one and yes we all miss something including inspectors so why not really make sure that you get the easy stuff done.

We've had this conversation before about why you have inspectors. So yeah, you put one to many conductors in a box, this time. Next time, two? How many becomes too many? Well guess what the code gives you that answer.

Panel clearance. Minimum 3'. Is 2' 11" close enough. Not in my book. Because pretty soon that becomes a matter of, well you gave it to me last time or you go to another city and start the "John let's us get away with that."

It becomes more of a question of morality or even character (character is what you do when no one else is watching). We used to have discussions like this where I used to work and they can be very entertaining. So the question was, you find a bag of drugs. You know how who to sell it to and you know you won't get caught and you are going to make $100,000. Do you sell it or turn it over to the police. Now remember that $100,000 is going to go a long way to help your family and that's why you work so hard now.

Do you ever speed? 56 in a 55? What's next, 57? 59? 63?

 

[growler]

We used to have discussions like this where I used to work and they can be very entertaining. So the question was, you find a bag of drugs. You know how who to sell it to and you know you won't get caught and you are going to make $100,000. Do you sell it or turn it over to the police. Now remember that $100,000 is going to go a long way to help your family and that's why you work so hard now.

Ok, If I find a bag of drugs the police can have it. I don't want it on my conscience that I put a bunch of drugs on the streets for kids ( money isn't everything).

On the other hand if I find a bag of money (cash) that was dropped by a drug dealer. It is against the law to keep it but I would have a hard time turning it in.

Edit: my reason is that I can't think of anyone that it would help if I did turn the money in. If I find your wallet and there is a way to contact you then you will get it back with every dollar.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Do you ever speed? 56 in a 55? What's next, 57? 59? 63?

All the time, but it's not my job to enforce the speed limit, it's my job to enforce the electrical code. When I do get pulled over (it's been years now) I simply smile and say thank you, have a nice day. I never say "well officer so and so saw me speeding last week and didn't give me a ticket."

 

[cowboyjwc]

Ok, If I find a bag of drugs the police can have it. I don't want it on my conscience that I put a bunch of drugs on the streets for kids ( money isn't everything).

On the other hand if I find a bag of money (cash) that was dropped by a drug dealer. It is against the law to keep it but I would have a hard time turning it in.

Edit: my reason is that I can't think of anyone that it would help if I did turn the money in. If I find your wallet and there is a way to contact you then you will get it back with every dollar.

Good answer, seems fair enough.

 

[DBoone]

All the time, but it's not my job to enforce the speed limit, it's my job to enforce the electrical code. When I do get pulled over (it's been years now) I simply smile and say thank you, have a nice day. I never say "well officer so and so saw me speeding last week and didn't give me a ticket."

It may not be your job to enforce the speed limit but it's your (and all of our) responsibility to obey the laws of this country. Have integrity. Do the right thing when nobody is watching. Most importantly, somebody, somewhere determined that a certain speed is the maximum speed on a particular road that one can travel and maintain reasonable safety. So everytime we speed even 1 mph over we are breaking the law and putting ourself and others in danger.

Sort of like the CMP gives us minimum standards to go by. You would say that something minor like staple placement is still wrong because 1) the book says its wrong. 2) it can lead to more violations. 3) people are expecting to buy the safest install possible so you're cheating them by cutting corners.

I say the same about a speed limit. Go over 1 mph and you're breaking the law and putting others' lives at risk.

 

[DBoone]

P.S. - nothing personal. Just friendly conversation :thumbsup: