Following Code

[GoldDigger]

When bicycling I tend to roll stop signs just a bit. Unless a kid is watching.

Tapatalk!

 

[qcroanoke]

When bicycling I tend to roll stop signs just a bit. Unless a kid is watching.

Tapatalk!

Nothing personal but most bicyclist around here consider the entire rule book irrelevlant and doesn't apply to them. Going for a walk on the greenway can get you hurt. After all it belongs to the cyclists. At least that's what they think......

 

[iwire]

I say the same about a speed limit. Go over 1 mph and you're breaking the law and putting others' lives at risk.

I am going to have to disagree with that.

Coming from an area where the posted speeds range from 55 to 65 on the highways but the average speed is 70-75 it is my opinion I put more lives at risk going the speed limit.

It is not speed that kills it is the difference in speed that kills. In other words going the speed limit and causing all others to have to slow down and change lanes to get around you only increases the chances of an accident.

 

[north star]

= ~ ~ ~ =

IMO, **cowboyjwc** nailed it in Post # 11 !.....It IS all about integrity
and doing the right thing.

Either you will do things according to the [ applicable ] Code, or you
won't !

= ~ ~ ~ =

 

[DBoone]

I am going to have to disagree with that.

Coming from an area where the posted speeds range from 55 to 65 on the highways but the average speed is 70-75 it is my opinion I put more lives at risk going the speed limit.

It is not speed that kills it is the difference in speed that kills. In other words going the speed limit and causing all others to have to slow down and change lanes to get around you only increases the chances of an accident.

Would you feel guilty and responsible if an accident occurred and someone was seriously injured or died even if you were going the speed limit and the other person was speeding? You were obeying the law, they were breaking the law.

 

[DBoone]

= ~ ~ ~ =

IMO, **cowboyjwc** nailed it in Post # 11 !.....It IS all about integrity
and doing the right thing.

Either you will do things according to the [ applicable ] Code, or you
won't !

= ~ ~ ~ =

That way of thinking is exactly why I started this thread. Do we do ALL things according to code or law or just things that we are hardcore obsessed with.

Edit: all things = all things in our everyday life

 

[cowboyjwc]

P.S. - nothing personal. Just friendly conversation :thumbsup:

Of course, I love these kinds of debates.

It may not be your job to enforce the speed limit but it's your (and all of our) responsibility to obey the laws of this country. Have integrity. Do the right thing when nobody is watching. Most importantly, somebody, somewhere determined that a certain speed is the maximum speed on a particular road that one can travel and maintain reasonable safety. So everytime we speed even 1 mph over we are breaking the law and putting ourself and others in danger.

Sort of like the CMP gives us minimum standards to go by. You would say that something minor like staple placement is still wrong because 1) the book says its wrong. 2) it can lead to more violations. 3) people are expecting to buy the safest install possible so you're cheating them by cutting corners.

I say the same about a speed limit. Go over 1 mph and you're breaking the law and putting others' lives at risk.

Actually speed limits are set by the percentage of the speed that a certain percentage of the drivers are driving on a set piece of roadway. I'm not sure the actual formula, but say the speed limit is 35 mph and 90% of the drivers are clocked at 45 mph, I think the law requires that the speed limit be raised to say 40 mph. Otherwise it becomes considered a speed trap. Since I work for a jurisdiction (24 years today as a matter of fact) and drive one of their truck, I tend to follow the driving laws a lot more closely. You want to see someone not follow the traffic laws, follow a cop around for a while.:happyyes:

Also I agree with Kwired (that's actually twice in one week we've agreed on something) that going too slow can be just a dangerous as going too fast.

 

[DBoone]

Of course, I love these kinds of debates.

Actually speed limits are set by the percentage of the speed that a certain percentage of the drivers are driving on a set piece of roadway. I'm not sure the actual formula, but say the speed limit is 35 mph and 90% of the drivers are clocked at 45 mph, I think the law requires that the speed limit be raised to say 40 mph. Otherwise it becomes considered a speed trap. Since I work for a jurisdiction (24 years today as a matter of fact) and drive one of their truck, I tend to follow the driving laws a lot more closely. You want to see someone not follow the traffic laws, follow a cop around for a while.:happyyes:

Also I agree with Kwired (that's actually twice in one week we've agreed on something) that going too slow can be just a dangerous as going too fast.

Interesting info... I'll look into it.

Agree with ya about cops :happyyes:

Did you mean Kwired or iwire?

 

[PetrosA]

It may not be your job to enforce the speed limit but it's your (and all of our) responsibility to obey the laws of this country. Have integrity. Do the right thing when nobody is watching. Most importantly, somebody, somewhere determined that a certain speed is the maximum speed on a particular road that one can travel and maintain reasonable safety. So everytime we speed even 1 mph over we are breaking the law and putting ourself and others in danger.

Sort of like the CMP gives us minimum standards to go by. You would say that something minor like staple placement is still wrong because 1) the book says its wrong. 2) it can lead to more violations. 3) people are expecting to buy the safest install possible so you're cheating them by cutting corners.

I say the same about a speed limit. Go over 1 mph and you're breaking the law and putting others' lives at risk.

Cowboyjwc pretty much nailed it about the speed limits, but it's not the only reason for a given speed limit. In PA, there are two official speed limits according to the driver's code - 35 mph and 55 mph, and drivers are expected to know what the speed limit is on a given stretch of road. Any other posted speed limits can be for a variety of reasons - safety, speed traps, or someone's cats keep getting killed. Unfortunately, speed limits and electrical codes are written by real people who may or may not have a vested interest in the effects of the laws they make.

 

[ActionDave]

......Nit picky? You bet. Why nit pick? Because it's a simple one and yes we all miss something including inspectors so why not really make sure that you get the easy stuff done.

We've had this conversation before about why you have inspectors. So yeah, you put one to many conductors in a box, this time. Next time, two? How many becomes too many? Well guess what the code gives you that answer.

Panel clearance. Minimum 3'. Is 2' 11" close enough. Not in my book. Because pretty soon that becomes a matter of, well you gave it to me last time or you go to another city and start the "John let's us get away with that."....

Here is a real life scenario- Running emt out of a panel. It needs to be strapped 36". At 37" I can hit a solid stud, at 36" I need to use a drywall anchor. I opted for the solid stud at 37".

I think I made the right choice, and my boss did too. He is the one who said, "Go ahead.", when I told him what I wanted to do.

If you want to put the cuffs on me sheriff I won't argue, but I don't think you'll find a jury that will convict me.

 

[K8MHZ]

I am going to have to disagree with that.

Coming from an area where the posted speeds range from 55 to 65 on the highways but the average speed is 70-75 it is my opinion I put more lives at risk going the speed limit.

It is not speed that kills it is the difference in speed that kills. In other words going the speed limit and causing all others to have to slow down and change lanes to get around you only increases the chances of an accident.

Anyone here from the Detroit area?

Try driving 70 mph on the 696 without being a traffic hazard. I have heard tales of people getting tickets for driving to slow there and they were doing the 70 mph limit.

 

[iwire]

Would you feel guilty and responsible if an accident occurred and someone was seriously injured or died even if you were going the speed limit and the other person was speeding? You were obeying the law, they were breaking the law.

Would I feel guilty and responsible? No.

But I was not discussing assignment of blame. I was talking about reducing the number of deaths regardless of fault.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Interesting info... I'll look into it.

Agree with ya about cops :happyyes:

Did you mean Kwired or iwire?

It was iwire. I typed to quick.:ashamed1:

 

[cowboyjwc]

Here is a real life scenario- Running emt out of a panel. It needs to be strapped 36". At 37" I can hit a solid stud, at 36" I need to use a drywall anchor. I opted for the solid stud at 37".

I think I made the right choice, and my boss did too. He is the one who said, "Go ahead.", when I told him what I wanted to do.

If you want to put the cuffs on me sheriff I won't argue, but I don't think you'll find a jury that will convict me.

Would I slap the cuffs on you, real life scenario, probably not. Would I dangle them in front of you and ask you if you knew what the code said or if your boss did? Yeah maybe.:happyyes:

 

[growler]

Here is a real life scenario- Running emt out of a panel. It needs to be strapped 36". At 37" I can hit a solid stud, at 36" I need to use a drywall anchor. I opted for the solid stud at 37".

Would I slap the cuffs on you, real life scenario, probably not. Would I dangle them in front of you and ask you if you knew what the code said or if your boss did? Yeah maybe.:happyyes:

Article 358.30 (A).....each EMT run between termination point shall be securely fastened within 900mm (3ft) of each outlet box, junction box, device box, cabinet, conduit body, or other tubing termination.

Sounds kind of cut and dried until you read the exception.

Exception No. 1 Fastening of of unbroken lengths shall be permitted to be increased to a distance of 1.5 m (5ft) where structural members do not readily permit fastening within 900mm (3ft).

Now we need to think of "securely fastened" ( a stud is more secure than drywall anchor) and "readily permit" ( kind of a judgement call ).

I take it that this exception would allow for the strap to be located at the 37" with a clear conscience for the inspector. By the way there are inspectors that don't agree.

 

[petersonra]

I feel I have no moral obligation to obey any government imposed rules, regulations, or laws that violate either the federal or state constitution. That covers about 90% of them.

As a practical matter I obey the laws, rules, and regulations when and as I feel it is in my best interest to obey.

if the speed limit sign says 55, I will likely be doing 60.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Article 358.30 (A).....each EMT run between termination point shall be securely fastened within 900mm (3ft) of each outlet box, junction box, device box, cabinet, conduit body, or other tubing termination.

Sounds kind of cut and dried until you read the exception.

Exception No. 1 Fastening of of unbroken lengths shall be permitted to be increased to a distance of 1.5 m (5ft) where structural members do not readily permit fastening within 900mm (3ft).

Now we need to think of "securely fastened" ( a stud is more secure than drywall anchor) and "readily permit" ( kind of a judgement call ).

I take it that this exception would allow for the strap to be located at the 37" with a clear conscience for the inspector. By the way there are inspectors that don't agree.

You are correct and I knew the exception was there, but does he know the exception is there?:roll: Sometimes you just want to know that they know and aren't pulling the old, "well that's stupid, I've never heard of such a thing."

 

[mwm1752]

How many here would never do something against code, even if you knew that 999,999,999 out of 1,000,000,000 times there would never be an issue and the house wouldn't burst into flames and nobody would die, because ,well, if the code says I have to do it this way I'm going to do it this way?

A staple 14" from box, No AFCI breakers, one or two conductors over box fill, etc.

Now, how many drive over the speed limit daily? Aren't speed limits and electrical codes basically the same thing? The powers that be give us guidelines to abide by to increase safety?

I think it's more dangerous going 70 mph down the highway in a hunk of metal than being a conductor over box fill. Especially with all the distractions in a vehicle... Radio, phone, food, etc.

:bye:

If your point is that we are human its true