Hot tub bonding.

GlennG · Mar 26, 2014

I just got a violation for not having an equipotential bond around a hot tub. I was under the impression it's not a requirement for that. The tub is on a small patio surface surrounded by grass, and no metal anywhere near the tub. We are on 2008 NEC. I read through 680 and can't seem to find where the equipotential bonding ring relates to hot tubs. Can someone please help me figure out what I am missing. Looking for code references. Thanks

Ponchik · Mar 26, 2014

680.42
A spa or hot tub installed outdoor must comply with part I & II of article 680 except as permitted in 680.42(a) and (b) that would otherwise apply to pools installed outdoors.

Ohms law · Mar 26, 2014

GlennG said:
I just got a violation for not having an equipotential bond around a hot tub. I was under the impression it's not a requirement for that. The tub is on a small patio surface surrounded by grass, and no metal anywhere near the tub. We are on 2008 NEC. I read through 680 and can't seem to find where the equipotential bonding ring relates to hot tubs. Can someone please help me figure out what I am missing. Looking for code references. Thanks

What I read states you do not need equipotential bond around a hot tub according to 680.42(b)1,2,3,4. The only bonding I believe is required is the metal frame not including attachments for wooden staves, motor frame, light fixtures, etc.
Is it a listed as a self-contained spa? If it is look for a ANSI/UL 1563-2010, you should be good. Maybe I'm wrong or missing something. I have never ran into an issue with an inspector for this.

Ohms law · Mar 26, 2014

I just realized what i wrote: What I read states you do not need equipotential bond around a hot tub according to 680.42(b)1,2,3,4. The only bonding I believe is required is the metal frame, motor frame, light fixtures, etc. Not including fasteners for wooden staves, etc.
Is it a listed as a self-contained spa? If it is look for a ANSI/UL 1563-2010, you should be good. Maybe I'm wrong or missing something. I have never ran into an issue with an inspector for this.[/QUOTE]

Dennis Alwon · Mar 26, 2014

Equipotential bonding is required for a hot tub unless your area has accepted the TIA for tubs. That allows certain installs to not be required to have equipotential bonding.

Dennis Alwon · Mar 26, 2014

Here is the TIA

Pursuant to Section 5 of the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects, the National Fire Protection Association has issued
the following Tentative Interim Amendment to NFPA 70?, National Electrical Code?, 2011 edition. The TIA was processed by Panel
17 and the National Electrical Code Technical Correlating Committee, and was issued by the Standards Council on March 1, 2011,
with an effective date of March 21, 2011.

A Tentative Interim Amendment is tentative because it has not been processed through the entire standards-making procedures. It is
interim because it is effective only between editions of the standard. A TIA automatically becomes a proposal of the proponent for the
next edition of the standard; as such, it then is subject to all of the procedures of the standards-making process.

1. Revise 680.42(B) to read as follows:

680.42(B) Bonding. Bonding by metal-to-metal mounting on a common frame or base shall be permitted.

Exception No. 1: The metal bands or hoops used to secure wooden staves shall not be required to be bonded as required in 680.26.

Exception No. 2: A listed self-contained spa or hot tub that meets all of the following conditions shall not be required to have
equipotential bonding of perimeter surfaces installed as required in 680.26(B)(2):

(1) Is installed in accordance with manufacturer?s instructions on or above grade.
(2) The vertical measurement from all permanent perimeter surfaces within 30 horizontal inches (76 cm) of the spa to the top
rim of the spa is greater than 28 inches (71 cm).

Dennis Alwon · Mar 26, 2014

I agree with Edward ---680.42 for outdoor installs states to use parts I and II of art. 680. Part II has the equipotential bonding.

Ohms law · Mar 26, 2014

Dennis Alwon said:
Equipotential bonding is required for a hot tub unless your area has accepted the TIA for tubs. That allows certain installs to not be required to have equipotential bonding.

I have never heard of TIA's until now. It would be nice if CEU instructors would bring this kind of stuff up to inform electricians.

infinity · Mar 27, 2014

Is a self contained package unit exempt under the 2014 NEC?

Dennis Alwon · Mar 27, 2014

infinity said:
Is a self contained package unit exempt under the 2014 NEC?

Basically the TIA has been entered in the 2014 NEC

kwired · Mar 27, 2014

OP states that the 2008 NEC applies. The mentioned TIA only applies to 2011 AFAIK. If it applied to 2008 they likely would have changed the wording in 2011 to eliminate the need for the TIA.

Dennis Alwon · Mar 27, 2014

kwired said:
OP states that the 2008 NEC applies. The mentioned TIA only applies to 2011 AFAIK. If it applied to 2008 they likely would have changed the wording in 2011 to eliminate the need for the TIA.

A state can choose to amend the 2008 and accept the TIA if they choose but generally you are correct. NC has yet to adopt the TIA.

kwired · Mar 27, 2014

Dennis Alwon said:
A state can choose to amend the 2008 and accept the TIA if they choose but generally you are correct. NC has yet to adopt the TIA.

With an issue such as we have in this thread it gets more complicated when some are either on or about to switch to 2014, and others are still on 2008 or even earlier, especially when you have world wide participation in the forum.

Dennis Alwon · Mar 27, 2014

kwired said:
With an issue such as we have in this thread it gets more complicated when some are either on or about to switch to 2014, and others are still on 2008 or even earlier, especially when you have world wide participation in the forum.

I agree and it is even more complicated when local areas have their own amendments that are different from the state. This is why I stated IF your area has adopted the TIA. Probably unlikely that an area in the 2008 NEC will adopt the TIA.

infinity · Mar 27, 2014

So under the 2014 I buy a hot tub, plop it on the patio and no EPG required. Do the same under the 2008 or 2011 (w/no TIA acceptance) and it requires the EPG?

Dennis Alwon · Mar 27, 2014

infinity said:
So under the 2014 I buy a hot tub, plop it on the patio and no EPG required. Do the same under the 2008 or 2011 (w/no TIA acceptance) and it requires the EPG?

YEP-----

infinity · Mar 27, 2014

infinity said:
So under the 2014 I buy a hot tub, plop it on the patio and no EPG required. Do the same under the 2008 or 2011 (w/no TIA acceptance) and it requires the EPG?

Dennis Alwon said:
YEP-----

Guess that hot tub safety and design is getting much better. :roll:

Little Bill · Mar 28, 2014

What do you do if the tub is on a wooden deck 15' up from the ground?
The deck being more of a balcony, not much larger than the tub.

GoldDigger · Mar 28, 2014

Little Bill said:
What do you do if the tub is on a wooden deck 15' up from the ground?
The deck being more of a balcony, not much larger than the tub.

Grin wryly and put an equipotential grid on the underside of the wooden decking, of course.

Dennis Alwon · Mar 28, 2014

GoldDigger said:
Grin wryly and put an equipotential grid on the underside of the wooden decking, of course.

And some cmp members think you need to install the equipotential bonding in the ground as stated in the NEC even though the tub may be up on a deck

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