210.8 (D) Dishwashers on GFCI

[jaylectricity]

I'm not completely opposed to dishwashers being on a GFCI, but it's curious how this is D and not just included under 210.8 (A). Does anybody know why it needed to be separate?

 

[M. D.]

A for receptacles .... D for outlet receptacle or otherwise ?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I'm not completely opposed to dishwashers being on a GFCI, but it's curious how this is D and not just included under 210.8 (A). Does anybody know why it needed to be separate?

If you look at (A) it is talking about receptacles so putting under (D) or separating it makes it clear it is not just cord and plug installs but all dishwashers no matter how they are wired.

 

[mkgrady]

In addition to gfci the DW also has to be on an afci?

 

[M. D.]

Yup.

​

 

[M. D.]

Jaylectricity ,
there are also rooms in a house which do not require GFCI , Would you not GFCI the laundry area in one of those rooms ?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Jaylectricity ,
there are also rooms in a house which do not require GFCI , Would you not GFCI the laundry area in one of those rooms ?

I believe the washer only needs gfci if it is within 6' of a sink but it does require afci.

 

[jaylectricity]

Jaylectricity ,
there are also rooms in a house which do not require GFCI , Would you not GFCI the laundry area in one of those rooms ?

Funny you should ask because I posed that exact question in another thread immediately after I posted this one. I checked this one first, so forgive me if you already posted in the other, but here's the link in case somebody is reading this thread some time in the future:

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=161191

 

[mkgrady]

I believe the washer only needs gfci if it is within 6' of a sink but it does require afci.

I think the gfci makes sense for the DW. I can't make any sense of the afci requirement. I might feel different if I sold afci's

 

[M. D.]

I believe the washer only needs gfci if it is within 6' of a sink but it does require afci.

Pretty sure 210.8 (10) 2014 but I don't have the holy writ in front of me and it's beddy bye time for me ..

 

[M. D.]

http://www.necanet.org/docs/default-source/attachments/download-presentation-pdf.pdf?sfvrsn=0
Dennis ,page 14 if your interested

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Everyone knew what a bathroom was before the code required GFCI protection for bathroom receptacles. We have the same issue with "laundry areas"...now that the code requires GFCI protection for a "laundry area', we have no idea what a "laundry area" is. The code will have to fix this just like the bathroom issue was fixed.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

http://www.necanet.org/docs/default-source/attachments/download-presentation-pdf.pdf?sfvrsn=0
Dennis ,page 14 if your interested

Yes the dishwasher needs gfci but not the washing machine unless it is 6' from the sink

 

[M. D.]

Yes the dishwasher needs gfci but not the washing machine unless it is 6' from the sink

Try this one, scroll down until you see the dishwasher the read the section above ,no sink required to kick in the requirement fo GFCI in laundry area http://www.iaei.org/blogpost/928475/165827/Analysis-of-Changes-2014-NEC

 

[M. D.]

Don , mostly for those on the edges .. We in the middle hadn't had much problem and I suspect we'll be ok with this one too

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Try this one, scroll down until you see the dishwasher the read the section above ,no sink required to kick in the requirement fo GFCI in laundry area http://www.iaei.org/blogpost/928475/165827/Analysis-of-Changes-2014-NEC

Too early for me-- I knew that and I totally blanked... you are correct. I think I was thinking about the refrigerator outlet being within 6' of the sink thus requiring gfci. Doh

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Don , mostly for those on the edges .. We in the middle hadn't had much problem and I suspect we'll be ok with this one too

I am sure we will be ok with this one too...right after there is a change in Article 100...just like for bathrooms and kitchens

 

[tom baker]

I remember kitchens in the 2002 NEC. That one got every body all confused all of a sudden nobody knew what a kitchen was. A break room in a job trailer with a microwave is not a kitchen. Fortunately, Washington adopted a clear code rule "a kitchen is where you wash dishes and prepare food and beverages."
The laundry area term is similar to what happened to a clothes closet which is now an area.
No body asked why the dishwasher needed to be GFCI protected....

 

[M. D.]

The" why "seems to be mostly an appliance related issue.

Explanation of Negative:
HILBERT, M.: The action should have been to accept this comment in
principle. See my ballot comment on Comment 2-22.
This comment should have been rejected as it does not address the root
cause. Most of the substantiation to provide to GFCI protection for dishwashers
was related to concerns with an appliance. The submitter indicated the vast
majority of failures have been related to either end of life component use,
unexplained electronic circuitry error, or poor quality control as indicated by
chafed wiring. There is no question to the fact that either AFCI or GFCI
protection may have prevented many of these unfortunate events from
happening in the first place, but they should not be used to address an
appliance problem. If the manufacturing process remains unchanged it does
nothing in the terms of safety for the existing dwellings in this country when it
becomes time to replace appliances.

 

[M. D.]

oh and to answer his last comment on replacements? GFCI upon replacement .