20 amp "only" to bathroom?

Status
Not open for further replies.
ritelec

ritelec

Senior Member
Location
Jersey
Saw a thread that had me thinking.

Say there's an existing bathroom with existing circuits (lighting/receptacle).

Would it be permissible to leave the existing circuits, gfci existing receptacles, and install your "new" 20amp circ to a one new receptacle to be compliant?

Just wondering. Thank you.
 
ritelec said:
Saw a thread that had me thinking.

Say there's an existing bathroom with existing circuits (lighting/receptacle).

Would it be permissible to leave the existing circuits, gfci existing receptacles, and install your "new" 20amp circ to a one new receptacle to be compliant?

Just wondering. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Yes.

Will even bring an existing non-compliant installation up to Code.
 
charlie b said:
I didn't see anything non-compliant in the OP's description. :happyno:


Click to expand...

There wasn't, as long as he did not re-model the bathroom.
He did say: Say there's an existing bathroom with existing circuits (lighting/receptacle).
 
He also didn't say that any of the loads on the existing circuit were outside that bathroom.
 
The code requires a 20 amp circuit. That circuit is to either:

1. Only feed outlets within that bathroom
2. Only feed receptacles in that and other bathrooms

There is no code that prohibits other outlets not included on that circuit.
 
infinity said:
Under the NJ rehab code you likely won't need to add the 20 amp circuit.
Click to expand...

Even if all the finished surface (drywall, tile, etc) is being replaced?

I had an inspector tell me to add the required outlets to a kitchen even though they weren't taking the walls down. His logic was, "New cabinets, new appliances, new plumbing, looks like a new kitchen. New electrical."
 
charlie b said:
He also didn't say that any of the loads on the existing circuit were outside that bathroom.
Click to expand...

I was just thinking hypothetical bath. One or more 15 amp circuits to other rooms also. Then the addition of the required 20 amp receptacle and circuit. Existing to remain.

jaylectricity said:
The code requires a 20 amp circuit. That circuit is to either:

1. Only feed outlets within that bathroom
2. Only feed receptacles in that and other bathrooms

There is no code that prohibits other outlets not included on that circuit.
Click to expand...

Yes. But does it state anywhere that it has to be the "only" receptacle circuit in the bath? 20 or 15 amp?

I did read one or more 20 amp bath receptacle circuits, but didn't locate anything saying you couldn't use the existing, or even run more 15 amp if you had the 20 amp required.
 
jaylectricity said:
Even if all the finished surface (drywall, tile, etc) is being replaced?
I had an inspector tell me to add the required outlets to a kitchen even though they weren't taking the walls down. His logic was, "New cabinets, new appliances, new plumbing, looks like a new kitchen. New electrical."
Click to expand...

Yep. Some times, NJ does get it right.
 
ritelec said:
I was just thinking hypothetical bath. One or more 15 amp circuits to other rooms also. Then the addition of the required 20 amp receptacle and circuit. Existing to remain.



Yes. But does it state anywhere that it has to be the "only" receptacle circuit in the bath? 20 or 15 amp?

I did read one or more 20 amp bath receptacle circuits, but didn't locate anything saying you couldn't use the existing, or even run more 15 amp if you had the 20 amp required.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen the kind of wording that would prevent you from adding other receptacles. Just as long as there is one circuit in there capable of drawing 20 amps.

So unless somebody wants to quote a section that says something like, "All receptacles shall be required to be on this circuit," or, "all receptacles within the bathroom must be on a 20A circuit," this issue is resolved.
 
210.11(C)(3):

In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least one 120-volt, 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply a bathroom receptacle outlet(s). Such circuits shall have no other outlets.
Click to expand...

I didn't think it was that complex, but lets break it down.

First the title is Bathroom branch circuits

"In addition to ..." it is talking about all of 210.11 or at very least all of 21.11(C) not jut the bathroom ...

"at least one ...." there will be at least one 20 amp circuit
"shall be provided to supply a bathroom receptacle outlet(s)", note how they designate singular or plural, which designates one or all receptacles.

"Such circuits shall have no other outlets." Meaning no outlets outside the bathroom, and there is an exception for conditions involving multiple bathrooms.

JMO, feel free to take me down if you have a better interpretation.

At one time NEC had no such requirements for bathrooms, if you run into something that was compliant but no longer would be today, generally the existing is still compliant to most AHJ. Some may not want you to add to anything that wouldn't be compliant today though, and may limit just what changes you could make before needing a new circuit.

Lighting outlets are not required to be on 20 amp circuits, but are not prohibited from being on the same 20 amp circuit(s) that supplies the receptacle(s) in the same bathroom.
 
kwired said:
"shall be provided to supply a bathroom receptacle outlet(s)", note how they designate singular or plural, which designates one or all receptacles.
Click to expand...

(s) means all? Not fighting this and appreciate "all" your advice "al"ways. But I don't see the word "all" receptacles.
It says "a" outlet or outlets.

Yes not complex,

If and when I do another bath, I would just install "all" the recepts on the 20 amp circ.

was just curious.

Thank you
 
Last edited:
ritelec said:
(s) means all? Not fighting this and appreciate "all" your advice "al"ways. But I don't see the word "all" receptacles.
It says "a" outlet or outlets.

Yes not complex,

If and when I do another bath, I would just install "all" the recepts on the 20 amp circ.

was just curious.

Thank you
Click to expand...

It says "receptacle outlet(s)" which I believe means all whether one or more, but is only limited to "receptacle outlets" lighting outlets are permitted on the circuit if you follow the requirements in the exception, but are not required to be on the circuit.

I will take back part of what I said and change it concerning "in addition to" as it is likely based on: only one receptacle outlet is required in the bath, but they want all others in addition to the one required to be on a 20 amp circuit as well.
 
Smart $ said:
Perhaps the intent... but definitely not worded that way. :happyno:
Click to expand...
Please tell us how you see the wording allowing a 15 amp receptacle circuit, not saying it can't be interpreted that way but I am not seeing it. And disregard any older install that once would have been compliant.
 
If you provide a 20A circuit to supply "a bathroom receptacle outlet" that does not, by itself, prohibit you from adding an additional 15A circuit to supply another receptacle.

The SABC wording is clear that all receptacles in the kitchen (with named exceptions) must be on an SABC. The bathroom section does not have comparable wording. The "(s)" in the bathroom wording, IMHO, allows you to serve more than one receptacle outlet with that circuit, but does not require that the circuit supply all of the receptacles that are present.
If we take your interpretation at face value, it would also prohibit having more than one single 20A bathroom circuit to any one bathroom, and I cannot believe that is the intent.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top