GFCI breakers tripping

[GoldDigger]

Did you try a different load? I'm guessing that even a lamp would've done the same thing, and that the receptacle is using one or more wrong neutrals.

But I guess there's not a safety problem, is there? Except for the next electrician, if he interrupts a neutral's home run, that is.

If it is a neutral problem, at least we now know that it is between the first receptacle and the breaker terminals I'm the panel.

Tapatalk!

 

[Little Bill]

If it is a neutral problem, at least we now know that it is between the first receptacle and the breaker terminals I'm the panel.

Tapatalk!

That's what I was thinking.
If it was something on the load side of the first receptacle or any downstream receptacle, then the GFCI receptacle should have tripped as well.

But, if the panel was miswired (neutrals not landed right), the GFCI breaker wouldn't wait one minute to trip. It would never reset.

So the "coward's way out" didn't help us "armchair troubleshooters"!

 

[xformer]

That's what I was thinking.
If it was something on the load side of the first receptacle or any downstream receptacle, then the GFCI receptacle should have tripped as well.

But, if the panel was miswired (neutrals not landed right), the GFCI breaker wouldn't wait one minute to trip. It would never reset.

So the "coward's way out" didn't help us "armchair troubleshooters"!

Its the "after one minute" issue that is throwing ppl. Could there be a capacitor in the circuit or some other load that initiates after the TV to cause problem?

 

[readydave8]

My gut feeling was that it not a crossed or shared neutral situation, lamps in that room are on tv circuit and don't trip breaker, also remember 1 minute delay, by the way tv directly across (10 or 12 feet) facing panel in the same room.

 

[growler]

New breaker tripped in about 1 minute. breaker would not reset

But, if the panel was miswired (neutrals not landed right), the GFCI breaker wouldn't wait one minute to trip. It would never reset.

You are thinking of the newer GFCI breakers. The original may have been in there for years and may have been an older type.

He is stating that the new GFCI breaker wouldn't reset. Sounds like there may be a real problem (with neutrals). Perhaps someone tied the neutrals togather in a junction box that he wouldn't see.

 

[Netpog]

My gut feeling was that it not a crossed or shared neutral situation, lamps in that room are on tv circuit and don't trip breaker, also remember 1 minute delay, by the way tv directly across (10 or 12 feet) facing panel in the same room.

Ah! So we have the results of the resistive-load-only test. Gotta suspect that TV.

Or maybe there's a surge protector involved? I've seen suggestions that the surge protectors' MOVs can break down, leaking to neutral and/or to ground. Also that they have some small background leakage, that can worsen over time, or become severe as the device warms up. For example: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=79216&p=601976#post601976

Perhaps the TV has internal MOVs? Forgive my ignorance, but IANAEE.

 

[readydave8]

Sounds like there may be a real problem (with neutrals). Perhaps someone tied the neutrals togather in a junction box that he wouldn't see.

Yes, I wish I could have investigated circuit more throughly.

I know I have presented information not as clear as I would have liked, also incomplete and skipping around (much the way it was presented to me).

Circuit worked for 30 years, only thing customer has admitted to changing recently is the TV itself.

 

[readydave8]

Ah! So we have the results of the resistive-load-only test. Gotta suspect that TV.

Or maybe there's a surge protector involved? I've seen suggestions that the surge protectors' MOVs can break down, leaking to neutral and/or to ground. Also that they have some small background leakage, that can worsen over time, or become severe as the device warms up. For example: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=79216&p=601976#post601976

Perhaps the TV has internal MOVs? Forgive my ignorance, but IANAEE.

May not be impossible but remember tv on different circuit? So I wonder how this could affect GFCI breaker on different circuit? Think I'll stick with haunted tv theory.

Also IDK what IANAEE means--I Am Not An Electrical Engineer? (Came to me while I was typing, maybe figuring out acronyms is my true calling rather than figuring out electrons).

 

[GoldDigger]

(Came to me while I was typing, maybe figuring out acronyms is my true calling rather than figuring out electrons).

You start out as an apprentice handling only TLAs and then go on to longer ones as you gain experience. The licensing test is a bear though.

PS: Once saw a copy (at a TELCO engineer's desk) of the Bell Environment Acronym Reference -- Human User Guide.

 

[kwired]

Does the TV cord have an EGC? If so does circuit hold if you use a two wire cheater and temporarily bypass the EGC? (don't let the customer see this or that will become their solution to the problem after you leave - probably best to use some other kind of cheater or even temporarily disconnect the receptacle EGC if they are watching)

Does circuit hold with the TV and no satellite/cable connected?

If GFCI is responding to a ground fault then you need a place for current to leak to and no EGC or cable would give you pretty limited places to leak in most instances.

 

[readydave8]

PS: Once saw a copy (at a TELCO engineer's desk) of the Bell Environment Acronym Reference -- Human User Guide.

Good thing title was not "BEARHUG"

 

[readydave8]

Well like I said felt limited for budget and schedule reasons, changed from GFCI breakers to GFCI receptacles in appropriate places, doubt that I'll ever see this again.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I didn't read all of the comments, but you could be getting something back on the neutral that the GFCI breakers are seeing in at the panel.

 

[Netpog]

You start out as an apprentice handling only TLAs and then go on to longer ones as you gain experience. The licensing test is a bear though.

PS: Once saw a copy (at a TELCO engineer's desk) of the Bell Environment Acronym Reference -- Human User Guide.

GoldDigger, I once thought that I was pretty good with acronyms, given my nerdly background, but then I found myself working for AT&T -- clearly I was very bad in a prior life -- and I was immediately over my head. I've never heard anything like it! There were conversations where I couldn't tell the nouns from the verbs, or the people from the programs from the engineering constraints. Kind of like, "TLA unless TLA with TLA the TLA, subject to the TLA of TLA, after TLA." (They rarely used FLAs, there.)

So, yeah, I'd love to see that BEAR-HUG, if you can find even a pointer to it. Google doesn't admit to its existence. But I can believe that it existed. (I do wish that I'd been issued one.)

(ReadyDave8, of course that's what I meant. Well done, sir.)

 

[GoldDigger]

So, yeah, I'd love to see that BEAR-HUG, if you can find even a pointer to it.

I wish I had one too. It was back in the early 70's and it was, of course, a hard copy. I seem to recall a blue soft cover, stapled and about 40 pages long.
But I never found it online or saw a copy ever again.
It might have been an internal nerd gag for all I know.

 

[kwired]

GoldDigger, I once thought that I was pretty good with acronyms, given my nerdly background, but then I found myself working for AT&T -- clearly I was very bad in a prior life -- and I was immediately over my head. I've never heard anything like it! There were conversations where I couldn't tell the nouns from the verbs, or the people from the programs from the engineering constraints. Kind of like, "TLA unless TLA with TLA the TLA, subject to the TLA of TLA, after TLA." (They rarely used FLAs, there.)

So, yeah, I'd love to see that BEAR-HUG, if you can find even a pointer to it. Google doesn't admit to its existence. But I can believe that it existed. (I do wish that I'd been issued one.)

(ReadyDave8, of course that's what I meant. Well done, sir.)

Military is another place that uses a lot of acronyms. If you don't learn them you get lost in conversation real easily.

 

[xformer]

Military is another place that uses a lot of acronyms. If you don't learn them you get lost in conversation real easily.

I know I have been lost a time or two here.... Is there a sheet or somewhere one can go to find commonly used acronyms in this forum?

 

[kwired]

I know I have been lost a time or two here.... Is there a sheet or somewhere one can go to find commonly used acronyms in this forum?

I think there is in the FAQ's section.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I think there is in the FAQ's section.

Cute.

 

[mgookin]

It would be cool if one day the system would allow a user to hover over an acronym and define it. Example: My EMT is rusting and I'm getting complaints - what can I do?
The system would have a customized dictionary and recognize the acronym to know we're not talking about "my wife the EMT who works at the local fire station".