DBoone
Senior Member
- Location
- Mississippi
- Occupation
- General Contractor
What can I do to become a good and fast Romex? Runner?? :huh:
Tips and Tricks
- Thread starter DBoone
- Start date
- Status
mjf
Senior Member
Drill holes level and/or straight and big enough.
Work off of spools instead of 250' rolls.
Pull homeruns first.
Know your circuits routes ahead of time.
Nail up all boxes before pulling wire.
2 guys will do more than 2x 1guy.
Let the plumber/HVAC rough-in first so you're not moving stuff.
Work off of spools instead of 250' rolls.
Pull homeruns first.
Know your circuits routes ahead of time.
Nail up all boxes before pulling wire.
2 guys will do more than 2x 1guy.
Let the plumber/HVAC rough-in first so you're not moving stuff.
readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
- Occupation
- electrician
When drilling studs don't let off switch between holes, I don't know why but keeping drill running makes me go faster.
If you are short (I'm 5'5"), hire a tall helper. If you are heavy, hire a skinny one.
If you are short (I'm 5'5"), hire a tall helper. If you are heavy, hire a skinny one.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
Agree on all of the above. A Milwaukee Extension Drill is indispensable in my opinion. It allows you to drill 9 ft ceiling joist.
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
Identify your wires at switch boxes. Home runs, switch legs, extra circuits of MWBC. Sharpie on the wire, or write on the stud. Identify Arc Fault & GFCI protected circuits at the panel. Identify GFCI device locations by twisting the line side. Experience, Experience, is the only sure fire way to gain speed.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Makes drilling go faster but you still need ladders, scaffolding, etc. to run the cables. One thing that does work great if you are accustomed to using them is stilts, they work even better if there is at least two guys as you are not going to be bending down and picking things off the floor if necessary, or doing any low work associated with same cable that is run high.
Also having a clean workspace with no other trade materials in the way helps a lot if you can get those conditions. One thing I hate about working on some DIY projects is they often already have drywall and other items not needed at the time on site and you are constantly finding things in the way.
I once had a new home where I had the boxes all up holes all drilled and was about ready to run cable. In mean time the builders showed up and in an afternoon put in all the windows - leaving all the cardboard and other packaging scattered all over the place when I got there to run cables:rant: I threw all their crap outside and did not care if the wind came up or not. Seems like HVAC guys are horrible for not cleaning up after themselves either and leave crap everywhere - including tools that get lost in their crap.
James L
Senior Member
- Location
- Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician
Pulling Romex fast is not so much about the do's and don'ts, as much as it is the mentality behind why you should or shouldn't do those things.
There are a few starting points in developing the proper mentality to pull wire faster than anyone you know. On a lax day, I pull about 500' per hour of wire. If I get after it, 600-700' per hour. I have pulled as much as 6,000' in one day. But not by working harder, it's by working smarter.
Here's what I tell guys I train: The first "trick" is not a trick at all. You've got to work.
You've got to move like you're trying to get something accomplished. If you walk like you're guiding an old lady across the street, just hang it up and read no further. You need to walk like you're about to crap your pants and trying to find a bathroom. Get moving like you're trying to accomplish something. Not running, not unsafe. But every time you walk across a room, or climb a ladder, you need to move quickly and get there.
The next is don't try to wire the whole house at one time, or even one room at one time. Think like you're manning every station of an assembly line. You do one job, one piece at a time, until that one job is finished. Then you move to the next job, one piece at a time until it's done
It starts with your markout. When you're marking your switch and receptacle locations, mark on the front of the stud so you can see them from anywhere in the room. I've seen guys mark out on the side of the stud, then they miss something when they nail up. For the switches, mark your SSS above the height of the box. Then below the height of the box, on the front of the stud, mark each description separated by hash marks. So for a 3-gang, you'll have three descriptions and two hash marks. This is important for when I pull wire, as I'll explain later. But get your markout complete and organized, on the fronts of the studs. That way you're not missing marks, or covering up important writing with boxes or wires. Mark a switch height FIRST as you mark out, then orient your other marks around that.
After your markout is finished, put your marker away and don't get it back out. Absolutely, one of the best ways to slow yourself down is to start writing on wires as you're pulling them. There is a better way to identify wires, if your goal is to speed up.
When it comes time to start using your tools, less is better. And this is one that keeps making a difference all the way through. First tool is your pants. Wear carpenter pants of shorts, so you have a hammer loop and several pockets without wearing your tool bags.
When you are passing out boxes, pass out all of one type, then all of the next type, etc. Assembly line, remember? Get your single gang boxes out first, then your 2-gangs, and so on. Then pass our your nail on 8B's, then your can lights, and so on. Pass out every single box of one type before you touch the other types. Until the whole house is passed out. Whatever you do, don't wear your tools when you're passing out boxes. You're not using them yet, leave them on the floor
When you nail up, nail up walls first. With only a hammer. You don't need 30 pounds of tools on your waist if the only tool you're using is a hammer. If you need to nail up a bar-hanger or front nailer, come back to it after all your hammer-only work is done. Trust me on this. Do all the work you can with only your hammer, first
As you're nailing up the walls, lay out your circuits. Get that out of the way right away, then revisit them.
When you nail up ceilings, minimal tools. I carry my hammer, a flat blade screwdriver, a pair of dykes, tape measure, and a small handful of staples (in my back pocket). Keep each tool in a separate pocket so you're not fumbling with them trying to get the right one. Clip your tape on your front pocket. Use your screwdriver as a scratch awl to mark where your ceiling boxes go, and use it to remove your can light knockout(s) before you nail it up. Nail up everything you can with the minimal tools you have on you. Do your paddle fans boxes, or anything else requiring more tools, at the end of nailing up
Revisit your circuits as you're nailing up your ceilings. Now you've gone through them twice, they will stick better as you drill out and pull wire
When you drill out, drill your walls first. More assembly line thought. Make sure your hole paths are straight as an arrow. If you have to mark hole heights, do it. You want your holes as straight as you can get them. Also, make sure each hole is level, not running downhill. Drill at an angle through corners when you can. It makes pulling around a corner so much easier. If you have to go from each side of a corner, make absolutely sure your holes line up perfectly so you don't fight the wire getting it through.
Drill as much as you can through the walls. It takes longer drilling, but makes pulling so much faster. Drill one hole for each wire when path drilling, and two wire per hole through a top plate. Sharing holes through a wall or ceiling increases the odds of missing a wire. If you drill across a ceiling from a switch, keep your holes in line with the hole into the wall, if possible.
In short, drill to make pulling easier, not to make drilling easier.
If you have studs that are really close together, change direction (left-right) of your bit at every stud. If you drill them all from the left, at an angle toward the back, it makes pulling harder. Go left-right-left-right-left-right through any area where studs are real close together.
When it comes to pulling wire, rolls or spools is a matter of preference. I prefer 250' rolls, using at least two stud reels. Set up your wire in a location where you can pull it from every room. Route your wire through doorways or between studs to where it pulls off the rolls or spools easy. I usually pull 40-50 feet into the room I'm working, and zig-zag it across the floor so as no to hang up on itself when I pull it through the walls or ceilings.
When you pull wire, use minimal tools and NO marker. I carry my dykes, a hammer, and a back pocket full of staples. That's it. And don't worry about wasting a little wire, just get the wire in. Move quickly. When you're pulling a wire, you should not have your hands on anything more than the first two feet from the end. Pull through one hole, then the next, etc, all the way from start to finish on a run.
If you pull through 4 holes, and pull slack through, then pull through another 4 holes and pull slack through, you're wasting too much time handling the wire. If your holes are drilled perfectly straight, you can pull through 40-50 studs, even through multiple corners. Pull the whole room in one pull if possible, then go to each plug or switch and pull your slack for each box. Much faster than one box-to-box pull at a time
When it comes to marking switch legs, crimp the end of the wire with your dykes. That crimp will still be there when you pull the sheathing off, unlike marker writing. At a multi-gang switch box, this is where your markout helps. Go top to bottom, 1-2-3-4, however many you have, and make that many crimps to coincide with the number you've assigned for a switch. Crimp 3-way travelers with the same number if crimps to coincide with the switch number you've assigned.
Pull all of one type of wire before you move on to the next type. I start small and go larger. All 14-2 first, then all 14-3, then all 12-2, and so on. Home runs first or last really doesn't matter. Just keep it one thing at a time until that one thing is done
When stapling to a wall box, don't staple any wires until they're all ready. If you staple a wire with 3 staples, then add another wire on top of it with another 3 staples, you've doubled your stapling at that box. Get both wires there, and staple them together.
Don't try making up anything until all your wire is all pulled. If it's a single wire in a fiber ceiling box, I might strip it and put it in when I staple it, but I usually don't. Don't waste the time it takes to make a mental shift from pulling wire to making up. Get the wire pulled, then make up
Like I said, treat it like assemble line work. One task type at a time, until that task type is done. Don't carry any tools on your waist. It makes you move much slower.
And believe it or not, three trips up a ladder with no tools is faster than one trip up with 30 pounds on your waist
Even when I make up, I carry only a pair of strippers that I hang on my right front pocket, and wire nuts in my back pocket
There are a few starting points in developing the proper mentality to pull wire faster than anyone you know. On a lax day, I pull about 500' per hour of wire. If I get after it, 600-700' per hour. I have pulled as much as 6,000' in one day. But not by working harder, it's by working smarter.
Here's what I tell guys I train: The first "trick" is not a trick at all. You've got to work.
You've got to move like you're trying to get something accomplished. If you walk like you're guiding an old lady across the street, just hang it up and read no further. You need to walk like you're about to crap your pants and trying to find a bathroom. Get moving like you're trying to accomplish something. Not running, not unsafe. But every time you walk across a room, or climb a ladder, you need to move quickly and get there.
The next is don't try to wire the whole house at one time, or even one room at one time. Think like you're manning every station of an assembly line. You do one job, one piece at a time, until that one job is finished. Then you move to the next job, one piece at a time until it's done
It starts with your markout. When you're marking your switch and receptacle locations, mark on the front of the stud so you can see them from anywhere in the room. I've seen guys mark out on the side of the stud, then they miss something when they nail up. For the switches, mark your SSS above the height of the box. Then below the height of the box, on the front of the stud, mark each description separated by hash marks. So for a 3-gang, you'll have three descriptions and two hash marks. This is important for when I pull wire, as I'll explain later. But get your markout complete and organized, on the fronts of the studs. That way you're not missing marks, or covering up important writing with boxes or wires. Mark a switch height FIRST as you mark out, then orient your other marks around that.
After your markout is finished, put your marker away and don't get it back out. Absolutely, one of the best ways to slow yourself down is to start writing on wires as you're pulling them. There is a better way to identify wires, if your goal is to speed up.
When it comes time to start using your tools, less is better. And this is one that keeps making a difference all the way through. First tool is your pants. Wear carpenter pants of shorts, so you have a hammer loop and several pockets without wearing your tool bags.
When you are passing out boxes, pass out all of one type, then all of the next type, etc. Assembly line, remember? Get your single gang boxes out first, then your 2-gangs, and so on. Then pass our your nail on 8B's, then your can lights, and so on. Pass out every single box of one type before you touch the other types. Until the whole house is passed out. Whatever you do, don't wear your tools when you're passing out boxes. You're not using them yet, leave them on the floor
When you nail up, nail up walls first. With only a hammer. You don't need 30 pounds of tools on your waist if the only tool you're using is a hammer. If you need to nail up a bar-hanger or front nailer, come back to it after all your hammer-only work is done. Trust me on this. Do all the work you can with only your hammer, first
As you're nailing up the walls, lay out your circuits. Get that out of the way right away, then revisit them.
When you nail up ceilings, minimal tools. I carry my hammer, a flat blade screwdriver, a pair of dykes, tape measure, and a small handful of staples (in my back pocket). Keep each tool in a separate pocket so you're not fumbling with them trying to get the right one. Clip your tape on your front pocket. Use your screwdriver as a scratch awl to mark where your ceiling boxes go, and use it to remove your can light knockout(s) before you nail it up. Nail up everything you can with the minimal tools you have on you. Do your paddle fans boxes, or anything else requiring more tools, at the end of nailing up
Revisit your circuits as you're nailing up your ceilings. Now you've gone through them twice, they will stick better as you drill out and pull wire
When you drill out, drill your walls first. More assembly line thought. Make sure your hole paths are straight as an arrow. If you have to mark hole heights, do it. You want your holes as straight as you can get them. Also, make sure each hole is level, not running downhill. Drill at an angle through corners when you can. It makes pulling around a corner so much easier. If you have to go from each side of a corner, make absolutely sure your holes line up perfectly so you don't fight the wire getting it through.
Drill as much as you can through the walls. It takes longer drilling, but makes pulling so much faster. Drill one hole for each wire when path drilling, and two wire per hole through a top plate. Sharing holes through a wall or ceiling increases the odds of missing a wire. If you drill across a ceiling from a switch, keep your holes in line with the hole into the wall, if possible.
In short, drill to make pulling easier, not to make drilling easier.
If you have studs that are really close together, change direction (left-right) of your bit at every stud. If you drill them all from the left, at an angle toward the back, it makes pulling harder. Go left-right-left-right-left-right through any area where studs are real close together.
When it comes to pulling wire, rolls or spools is a matter of preference. I prefer 250' rolls, using at least two stud reels. Set up your wire in a location where you can pull it from every room. Route your wire through doorways or between studs to where it pulls off the rolls or spools easy. I usually pull 40-50 feet into the room I'm working, and zig-zag it across the floor so as no to hang up on itself when I pull it through the walls or ceilings.
When you pull wire, use minimal tools and NO marker. I carry my dykes, a hammer, and a back pocket full of staples. That's it. And don't worry about wasting a little wire, just get the wire in. Move quickly. When you're pulling a wire, you should not have your hands on anything more than the first two feet from the end. Pull through one hole, then the next, etc, all the way from start to finish on a run.
If you pull through 4 holes, and pull slack through, then pull through another 4 holes and pull slack through, you're wasting too much time handling the wire. If your holes are drilled perfectly straight, you can pull through 40-50 studs, even through multiple corners. Pull the whole room in one pull if possible, then go to each plug or switch and pull your slack for each box. Much faster than one box-to-box pull at a time
When it comes to marking switch legs, crimp the end of the wire with your dykes. That crimp will still be there when you pull the sheathing off, unlike marker writing. At a multi-gang switch box, this is where your markout helps. Go top to bottom, 1-2-3-4, however many you have, and make that many crimps to coincide with the number you've assigned for a switch. Crimp 3-way travelers with the same number if crimps to coincide with the switch number you've assigned.
Pull all of one type of wire before you move on to the next type. I start small and go larger. All 14-2 first, then all 14-3, then all 12-2, and so on. Home runs first or last really doesn't matter. Just keep it one thing at a time until that one thing is done
When stapling to a wall box, don't staple any wires until they're all ready. If you staple a wire with 3 staples, then add another wire on top of it with another 3 staples, you've doubled your stapling at that box. Get both wires there, and staple them together.
Don't try making up anything until all your wire is all pulled. If it's a single wire in a fiber ceiling box, I might strip it and put it in when I staple it, but I usually don't. Don't waste the time it takes to make a mental shift from pulling wire to making up. Get the wire pulled, then make up
Like I said, treat it like assemble line work. One task type at a time, until that task type is done. Don't carry any tools on your waist. It makes you move much slower.
And believe it or not, three trips up a ladder with no tools is faster than one trip up with 30 pounds on your waist
Even when I make up, I carry only a pair of strippers that I hang on my right front pocket, and wire nuts in my back pocket
electricalist
Senior Member
- Location
- dallas tx
Jamesl thats about as good as it gets. Assembly line is less mental work with a higher chance for quality and if you do it enough you forget you made so many passes through the same place. For me its better.
There are a couple things I also do.
I cary fold up tape like a brick layer. Easy marking
X with arrow for plugs or paint x on the floor arrow to stud. .helps sheet rockers to remember to pay for covering it up.
Hot in and out always go in first hole.
On trim out tell yourself. " I didnt have to 3 wire this plug,, nope "
At the panel I write on the cable what circuit it is and slid that piece back on the hot.
There are a couple things I also do.
I cary fold up tape like a brick layer. Easy marking
X with arrow for plugs or paint x on the floor arrow to stud. .helps sheet rockers to remember to pay for covering it up.
Hot in and out always go in first hole.
On trim out tell yourself. " I didnt have to 3 wire this plug,, nope "
At the panel I write on the cable what circuit it is and slid that piece back on the hot.
electricalist
Senior Member
- Location
- dallas tx
Trim out the attic plug lights switch and d/b xfmr while ur up there . I also trim out kitchen dedicated circuits . M/w warming drawer disposal dishwasher and any thing that has a cab that I may have to crawl under over into or out of just to put the plug in. . Make friends with cabinet guys and plumbers.they can help u as much as hurt u.. make sure ur hammer is the same length as ur buddy's. . Put counter top gfci plugs and under cabinet/ over cabinet stub outs on the same stud same side.. so when u get the call , where are ur switchlegs u can tell him right above the plug. Have the sheetrocker explain to the cab guy what went wrong.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Number of feet pulled in an hour/day or whatever needs additional information to mean much. If pulling multiple long runs on a large project 6000 feet may be easy to pull in just a few hours. Next job or portion of same job may be lots of short runs and will take all day to run only a thousand or two thousand feet.
MasterTheNEC
CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
- Location
- McKinney, Texas
- Occupation
- CEO
UGH.....it's Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable or NM-B for the love of Budda...
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
He did include the "?", so he may very well be aware of this. Maybe that is the only brand of NM cable he uses
MasterTheNEC
CEO and President of Electrical Code Academy, Inc.
- Location
- McKinney, Texas
- Occupation
- CEO
I hope not (inside joke...sorry)He did include the "?", so he may very well be aware of this. Maybe that is the only brand of NM cable he uses
DBoone
Senior Member
- Location
- Mississippi
- Occupation
- General Contractor
Dude, I'm well aware of the correct general name NM-B but Romex? Runner had a nice ring to it. I added the ? just to be safe.
How about "NM Ninja" ?
DBoone
Senior Member
- Location
- Mississippi
- Occupation
- General Contractor
Great advice everybody. Thanks!James, thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed post. If anybody has more to add, keep it coming.
James L
Senior Member
- Location
- Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician
That stick rule is a good idea, and I can definitely see how that could make a markout go faster.
And you're right about noteven noticing how many times you walked through the same place. I also pull to my boxes the same way every time as much as possible. Repetition makes it faster.
James L
Senior Member
- Location
- Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician
You're welcome. There is one more thing that can save time, but most guys simply can't do it.
When you pull wire, don't staple anything until all your wire is in. String it all, then go back and staple it. You would be surprised how much time it can save to be able to go up a lader once and drive 4-8 staples in one trip.
That method is not for the faint at heart. I don't do it like that all the time anymore because I do a lot more than new homes now. But not long ago I wired some of a retirement community of duplexes and did it like that. It makes an immense difference, which is what I referred to earlier as getting after it.
That method, and the footages I stated that I pull in an hour or day, are assuming a run-of-the mill house, up to about 5,000 square feet witb 8'-12'ceilings.
I once wired a 9,000 sf rustic lodge style house that had 26' ceilings and exposed trusses made out of logs. When I wired the ceilings I had three scaffold sections stacked and a 4' ladder on it. I used 16,000 feet of wire in that house, and it took 3 weeks to pull it all, stapling as I went. That whole house took 10 weeks to rough in.
elf friend
Member
- Location
- wisconsin's east shore
To keep all my holes perfectly level I use a rotating lazer mounted on a tri pod. I can pull two cables the complete 360 degrees around the room with no trouble.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
I think the original D-Boone was a very fast runner. His secret was motivation as he had a bunch of Indians chasing him.
The best way to get fast and good at something is to find a crew that works fast and work with them for time.
- Status