SER or not?

[ThinkHome Electric]

Hello fellow Electricians,
This is my first post as a new member, please excuse me if I'm not too savvy in form just yet, thanks. I have been an electrician for over 20 years but admit that I have been primarily involved in the automation and control sector for the last 15 years and I am a bit rusty on the the more routine aspects of service installations. I am helping a friend install a new (relocated) service in PA, under MetEd spec. My question is this; The home is in a flood plane, the meter for the home and a second meter for a barn on the property are to be installed at standard elevation, approx 6ft to the top of the meter pan. It will be supplied from the pole by underground feeders in 3" conduit and terminate at a lug that allows for the tap to the 2 meters, 100A for the barn and 200A for the house. Sorry, I'm getting to the question. After the house meter, I am going to install a disconnect at the same elevation for the house, from there, 3" LFMC changing to 3" shed. 40PVC to an LB entering the home above the 8ft flood plane. I would like to run SER cable inside the flex and PVC for both protection and aesthetics, but continue inside the home up to the second floor where the panel and main breaker will be located. Is this permissible? I would also like to know if and how the EGC to the rod outside can be properly run and terminated as it passes through the disconnect to the rod? I admit I'm a bit embarrassed to ask such a simple question, but as I said I'm stuck in a bit of a niche field these days, no complaints, and could use the advice of experienced installers. I would be happy to take a crack at any questions you may have regarding 4-20 ma signals! Appreciate the help!

 

[Smart $]

Sounds good to me. :happyyes:

Note you do not have to continue PVC once inside and at some point fill around cable with duct seal.

 

[Smart $]

Potential problem area if getting inspected is LB max size conductors embossed inside it and SER bend radius being 5x outside diameter (not sure whether thin dimension can be used).

 

[Smart $]

Got any other electrodes besides ground rod?

Basically need to install two rods nowadays (unless you prove one is less than 25 ohms to ground)... but you may not have to install any depending on what other electrodes are available.

If using rod electrodes, just run #6 copper to both rods are terminate to grounded conductor in service disconnect or meter pan. Some POCO's require one to meter pan, others prohibit, and some don't care. Most POCO's nowadays have service requirements available online.

 

[infinity]

I agree, you cannot use SER in an LB conduit body for the reason Smart mentioned.

 

[iwire]

It is not something I would worry about in my area.

The use of sill plates is a common installation.

http://halexco.com/products.cfm?siteSection=contractor&product_subgroup=scs&product_group=SE

 

[Smart $]

I agree, you cannot use SER in an LB conduit body for the reason Smart mentioned.

I personally don't have any problem with terminating cable jacket where entering PVC with a cable connector and just running the un-jacketed conductors through the LB and conduit. Some others members have voiced their disapproval doing it this way...

 

[Smart $]

It is not something I would worry about in my area.

The use of sill plates is a common installation.

http://halexco.com/products.cfm?siteSection=contractor&product_subgroup=scs&product_group=SE

Be nice if they made some to transition from conduit. Those are for exposed cable.

 

[ritelec]

Deflection?

Don't understand and was going to ask if that was an issue.

4 wire ser 200 amp... is 3" large enough? (I would think so) just spent the past 1/2 hour researching (looking) for an older post about a cable in a conduit fill..

from what I remember my calculations said 4/0 seu had to be 2 1/2" (not 2) so not sure about the 4/0 ser in a 3".

 

[ritelec]

I'm curious now cause I had it...(use it or lose it)

might have been quicker to figure out how to do it again rather than looking for an old post.

Something to the effect of going to a cable manufacturer sight to get dimensions for area2.. then ??? x .151 or something to get cm.. then was it 53% of the conduit area ?...

gotta run, but definitely gone get back to it when I get back... was helpful to know "legally" which size multiwire conductors could get sleeved in which size conduit...


later.

 

[Smart $]

I'm curious now cause I had it...(use it or lose it)

might have been quicker to figure out how to do it again rather than looking for an old post.

Something to the effect of going to a cable manufacturer sight to get dimensions for area2.. then ??? x .151 or something to get cm.. then was it 53% of the conduit area ?...

gotta run, but definitely gone get back to it when I get back... was helpful to know "legally" which size multiwire conductors could get sleeved in which size conduit...


later.

Shouldn't be a problem for conduit fill... it's LB (aka conduit body) fill and possibly cable bend radius that's at issue.

 

[ritelec]

I got to let it go for now, but actually that .151 (which may not be the number) was to change the area2 to a circle area2.... got to go

 

[ritelec]

Shouldn't be a problem for conduit fill... it's LB (aka conduit body) fill and possibly cable bend radius that's at issue.

Understood.........for my own head I'd like to find if that conduit size is right for that cable... and again, 4" or 6" from here to there and deflection formulas...????? not a clue... would like to though >

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Around here I have seen ser and seu in lb's all the time. I believe I have even done it a time or two many years ago. Somehow nobody questions it here. 2" LB with 4/0 seu or ser. I hate that install.

 

[Smart $]

Understood.........for my own head I'd like to find if that conduit size is right for that cable... and again, 4" or 6" from here to there and deflection formulas...????? not a clue... would like to though >

Not sure what you mean by 'deflection formulas'.

Conduit fill is simply 53%. Cable area is pi*D?/4, where D is the widest cable dimension.

You also have pull requirement(s) of 314.28.

***
I suppose I should have mentioned this earlier, but we could make the LB a moot discussion if OP just terminates the PVC at one of the sill plate covers posted by iwire. Bending radius requirement must still be met, but shouldn't be a problem with a full size, perhaps even slotted hole under the sill plate cover.

 

[iwire]

Those are for exposed cable.

Yes, I have used them.

You pretty much have to bend a sharp 90 to use them.

My point was the inspectors around here never seem to bat an eye about that '5 Xs the diameter' nonsense.

 

[iwire]

Bending radius requirement must still be met, but shouldn't be a problem with a full size, perhaps even slotted hole under the sill plate cover.

LOL, you have not used them have you?

 

[Smart $]

Is it okay to use something like U-guard... the surface raceway POCO's use for cables running up the side of power poles?

 

[Smart $]

LOL, you have not used them have you?

No... please elaborate for the benefit of my ignorance.

 

[iwire]

No... please elaborate for the benefit of my ignorance.

Yes, if I was to hack into the customers siding, sheathing, and some of their sill I might .... might be able to comply with 5 times the radius while at the same time hoping the building inspector is fine with my cutting.

That said in my experience that is done about zero times.

I was taught to drill from outside to inside at an upward angle to keep water out so the SE is actually going to be bent in sharp angle more than 90 degree.

I hope this has benefited you.