Residential Water pipe. Is it called bonding or grounding?

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Joe Cool

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Hello

Have to run a conductor from the in house copper water pipes
to the 200 amp service disconnect outside.
The pipe coming from the well, entering the house, is plastic.
But the are copper pipes in the walls. Need to run a conductor
from an exposed area of the copper pipes to the outside disconnect.
I'm fairly certain that it has to be at least a #4AWG copper conductor.

I have a length of #3AWG THHN. Can I use the #3 THHN for this purpose?

Would the THHN have to be green? Or can I just put green tape on it?

Thanks for your time.
 
With the plastic underground, you are bonding the interior water lines to comply with 250.104(A). For a 200 amp service the required conductor would normally be a #4 but larger is of course allowed. It can be insulated or bare and no marking is required.
 
Joe Cool said:
Hello

Have to run a conductor from the in house copper water pipes
to the 200 amp service disconnect outside.
The pipe coming from the well, entering the house, is plastic.
But the are copper pipes in the walls. Need to run a conductor
from an exposed area of the copper pipes to the outside disconnect.
I'm fairly certain that it has to be at least a #4AWG copper conductor.

I have a length of #3AWG THHN. Can I use the #3 THHN for this purpose?

Would the THHN have to be green? Or can I just put green tape on it?

Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...
The code wire sizes are minimums. You can always run a larger size.

In general you can re-mark wire larger then #6, however you cannot re-mark white or gray wires with green tape to signify a ground wire.


Take a look at 250.104.
 
augie47 said:
With the plastic underground, you are bonding the interior water lines to comply with 250.104(A). For a 200 amp service the required conductor would normally be a #4 but larger is of course allowed. It can be insulated or bare and no marking is required.
Click to expand...

That's cool! Thanks much. You're the best!
 
You don't have to mark a grounding electrode conductor and I believe you don't have to use green for a bonding conductor either
 
Dennis Alwon said:
You don't have to mark a grounding electrode conductor and I believe you don't have to use green for a bonding conductor either
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I agree. It can't be white or gray though.

Is this actually a GEC? It is not connected to a GE. That would seem to make it some kind of bonding conductor.
 
petersonra said:
I agree. It can't be white or gray though.

Is this actually a GEC? It is not connected to a GE. That would seem to make it some kind of bonding conductor.
Click to expand...

Plastic water line enters the house so this is bonding not a grounding electrode conductor.
 
How much copper actually exist inside the structure? I've seen inspectors try to make me bond a 5' section of copper piping off the pressure tank even though the rest of the house was plastic... :?
 
I don't see where it states that a white or gray conductor cannot be a GEC or bonding jumper.
 
infinity said:
I don't see where it states that a white or gray conductor cannot be a GEC or bonding jumper.
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Try 200.7(A)
The following shall be used only for the grounded circuit conductor, unless otherwise permitted in 200.7(B) and (C): (1) A conductor with continuous white or gray covering
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Both GECs and bonding jumpers are grounded, and are arguably grounded conductors, but they are not grounded circuit conductors.

Note that Article 100 supports a distinction between system and circuit conductors:
Grounded Conductor. A system or circuit conductor that is intentionally grounded.
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Unfortunately, Circuit Conductor is not defined. :(
 
GoldDigger said:
Try 200.7(A)


Both GECs and bonding jumpers are grounded, and are arguably grounded conductors, but they are not grounded circuit conductors.

Note that Article 100 supports a distinction between system and circuit conductors:

Unfortunately, Circuit Conductor is not defined. :(
Click to expand...

I can see your point. :)
 
infinity said:
I can see your point. :)
Click to expand...
Now for the next stage: Can GECs and bonding jumpers be green? :)

It appears that EGCs must be green, but some others may be green too.

250.119 [2011]
...
Conductors with insulation or individual covering that is green, green with one or more yellow stripes, or otherwise identified as permitted by this section shall not be used for ungrounded or grounded circuit conductors.
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Looks to me as if you can use green for grounded system conductors too therefore including GECs and bonding jumpers, but I am sure there will not be universal agreement.
 
I have an inspector that I can't convince that there is no color requirements for GEC's or bonding jumpers, he always asks me to mark them green (unless they are bare), and I always tell him they don't have to be green and ask where he thinks it says they must be green, but usually end up marking them just to get him past this area and shut him up on the topic:(

Usually only happens when I have to use something larger then 4 AWG as I don't normally stock anything larger then that in bare conductors.
 
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