AFCI PROTECTION FOR BOILER AND EXTERIOR GFCI RECEPTACLE

[Briney]

Have calculated number of CAFCI circuit breaker needed for 200 amp upgrade in my day gutters 1925 home. So far the only circuits not requiring AFCI are the dedicated 240 V air conditioner and garage and GFI exterior receptacle. Was planning on using dedicated boiler circuit without AFCI protection since I couldn't find specific reason not to.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Have calculated number of CAFCI circuit breaker needed for 200 amp upgrade in my day gutters 1925 home. So far the only circuits not requiring AFCI are the dedicated 240 V air conditioner and garage and GFI exterior receptacle. Was planning on using dedicated boiler circuit without AFCI protection since I couldn't find specific reason not to.

The 2014 NEC doesn't clearly and unambiguously require a dedicated boiler branch circuit to be AFCI protected.

I think it is a terrible idea to put the primary heating system of a dwelling on an AFCI protected circuit, without having remote monitored services to help prevent the building from freeze up.

 

[ActionDave]

There is no chance in h e double toothpicks that I would put my boiler on a AFCI.

 

[infinity]

Have calculated number of CAFCI circuit breaker needed for 200 amp upgrade in my day gutters 1925 home. So far the only circuits not requiring AFCI are the dedicated 240 V air conditioner and garage and GFI exterior receptacle. Was planning on using dedicated boiler circuit without AFCI protection since I couldn't find specific reason not to.

What code cycle are you on? The 2011 allowed more locations in a dwelling without AFCI protection.

 

[romex jockey]

The 2014 NEC doesn't clearly and unambiguously require a dedicated boiler branch circuit to be AFCI protected.

I think it is a terrible idea to put the primary heating system of a dwelling on an AFCI protected circuit, without having remote monitored services to help prevent the building from freeze up.

The '17 is rumored to do away with all non-afci 120V branches

this>>>

(A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices in-
stalled in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining
rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms,
sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry ar-
eas, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by any of
the means described in 21 0.I2(A)(l) through (6):

to this>

(A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices in-
stalled in dwelling units shall be protected by any of
the means described in 21 0.I2(A)(l) through (6):

Let them freeze

~RJ~

 

[kwired]

But there must be something wrong if it trips........:ashamed1:

 

[al hildenbrand]

Let them freeze

But there must be something wrong if it trips........:ashamed1:

:roll: Oh, you guys. . . .

 

[peter d]

There is no chance in h e double toothpicks that I would put my boiler on a AFCI.

Likewise. I'll risk the liability of not having AFCI protection versus having a building freeze up.

 

[romex jockey]

An EC always walks the litigant line , made even more uncomfortable with all the junk that's on the market

Guess who all the trade rags, testing labs , consumer protective elements and nfpa members side with?

There is little in the way of 'electrical consumer reports' (per se') to inform us ,or 'rate' anything we install daily.

It's all word of mouth.....

~RJ~

 

[Briney]

2014 NEC

2014 NEC

despite what it does and doesn't say, I am inclined to side with other posts that indicate the ambiguousness of listing boiler circuit. Think I will install 15 amp Sq D QO standard breaker and see what inspector says.
Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[kwired]

despite what it does and doesn't say, I am inclined to side with other posts that indicate the ambiguousness of listing boiler circuit. Think I will install 15 amp Sq D QO standard breaker and see what inspector says.
Thanks for everyone's input.

That shouldn't be a problem unless the boiler is located in one of the rooms mentioned in 210.12 - "kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas"

Other codes likely prohibit it from being in most of those rooms.

2017 NEC sounds like it will be required to be AFCI protected though.

 

[al hildenbrand]

That shouldn't be a problem unless the boiler is located in one of the rooms mentioned in 210.12 - "kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas".

And that "or similar rooms or areas" can be used to get relief if the inspector is inclined to say that the furnace in the corner of the living room requires an AFCI, one can argue that the "room" has two areas in it, a living area and a furnace area. The logic being that the furnace area can't be used as a living area because it has a furnace in it. . . there is no living area in a furnace. . . so the branch circuit supplying the furnace doesn't go to the "living area", it goes to the furnace area, which, at this point, doesn't require AFCI as described in 210.12

 

[kwired]

And that "or similar rooms or areas" can be used to get relief if the inspector is inclined to say that the furnace in the corner of the living room requires an AFCI, one can argue that the "room" has two areas in it, a living area and a furnace area. The logic being that the furnace area can't be used as a living area because it has a furnace in it. . . there is no living area in a furnace. . . so the branch circuit supplying the furnace doesn't go to the "living area", it goes to the furnace area, which, at this point, doesn't require AFCI as described in 210.12

I get your logic, but don't count on all inspectors buying it.

Many cases you will have that kind of equipment in a separate room anyway or you will have violations of other codes.

 

[romex jockey]

And that "or similar rooms or areas" can be used to get relief if the inspector is inclined to say that the furnace in the corner of the living room requires an AFCI, one can argue that the "room" has two areas in it, a living area and a furnace area. The logic being that the furnace area can't be used as a living area because it has a furnace in it. . . there is no living area in a furnace. . . so the branch circuit supplying the furnace doesn't go to the "living area", it goes to the furnace area, which, at this point, doesn't require AFCI as described in 210.12

The dilemma being a furnace switch facing into the furnace room vs. one facing out into a living area Al

~RJ~

 

[al hildenbrand]

The dilemma being a furnace switch facing into the furnace room vs. one facing out into a living area

Most furnaces I've seen and that I've wired all have the switch on the body of the furnace in an electrician assembled branch circuit running down from the ceiling in pipe to a junction box that houses the disconnect switch.

Are you trying to say that such a switch, mounted on the body of the furnace, that, because it is facing away from the furnace it is mounted to, the switch is NOT in the furnace area?

 

[peter d]

Most furnaces I've seen and that I've wired all have the switch on the body of the furnace in an electrician assembled branch circuit running down from the ceiling in pipe to a junction box that houses the disconnect switch.

Are you trying to say that such a switch, mounted on the body of the furnace, that, because it is facing away from the furnace it is mounted to, the switch is NOT in the furnace area?

No, he's talking about a common code requirement we have in New England. We have to install a remote disconnect switch outside of the furnace or boiler room. This applies to oil burners but it's generally installed regardless of fuel type. So if you have a furnace in an unfinished portion of a basement and the disconnect switch is in a finished area, technically AFCI protection would be required because of the switch location.

 

[al hildenbrand]

No, he's talking about a common code requirement we have in New England. We have to install a remote disconnect switch outside of the furnace or boiler room. This applies to oil burners but it's generally installed regardless of fuel type. So if you have a furnace in an unfinished portion of a basement and the disconnect switch is in a finished area, technically AFCI protection would be required because of the switch location.

Ah, so. I can understand that. A switch requiring AFCI protection is an old trope of mine. . .

 

[Briney]

Splitting hairs.....

Splitting hairs.....

So, here we have established one of the many gray areas covering the intent and rational applications for new and future requirements for AFCI protection. You are permitted to avoid requirement for dedicated 240 volt appliances, garages,exterior devices, and areas not covered under "similar" areas ( a pretty subjective definition I think we agree). Can we please ask the code panel to apply some common sense in identifying areas like the critical systems discussed such as boilers, smoke detectors, etc and waiver them as long as they are dedicated circits?

 

[al hildenbrand]

Can we please ask the code panel to apply some common sense in identifying areas like the critical systems discussed such as boilers, smoke detectors, etc and waiver them as long as they are dedicated circuits?

Two points: The push back on the AFCI requirement for smoke / CO detectors in the rooms, or areas, listed in 210.12 has been happening for several Code cycles and the Code Making Panels (CMPs) have consistently rejected any attempt to allow smoke / CO detectors to go without AFCI.

The 2017 NEC is in the "Second Revision" which leads to the Second Draft, and, at this point, the CMP has removed the list of rooms or areas from 210.12 completely and stated that ALL dwelling 120 V 15 or 20 Amp branch circuits MUST be AFCI protected. There is still a chance that something "mysterious" will happen in the final editorial process of the next months to limit this "ALL" requirement , but it is not likely.

So, as common sense as it is, to you and me, to not subject "critical systems" to the algorithms of AFCI protection, the language of the 2017 NEC is not going to allow it at all.

 

[mwm1752]

Is you panel move less than 6' -- While I may personally agree to protect certain branch circuits -- a modification of the branch circuit wiring does not per definition include the OCPD.
Branch Circuit. The circuit conductors between the final overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet(s).
Might be why they have a special AFCI protection clause in Art 406 for replacements -- BTW I agree the boiler room is not a similar place