LED Lighting

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jeff48356

Senior Member
I have a few questions about Code compliance regarding lighting fixtures, now that LED bulbs are readily available for a reasonable cost.

1) For recessed lighting, would we now be able to use non-IC rated units in insulated ceilings as long as we use an LED retrofit trim (with the trim & LED's in one piece)? If so, that would be very handy since 4" IC-rated units are very difficult to find, if they make them at all.

2) In clothes closets, would we be allowed to use basement lampholders with a bare bulb as long as we use an LED bulb, rather than a CFL or incandescent?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I have a few questions about Code compliance regarding lighting fixtures, now that LED bulbs are readily available for a reasonable cost.

1) For recessed lighting, would we now be able to use non-IC rated units in insulated ceilings as long as we use an LED retrofit trim (with the trim & LED's in one piece)? If so, that would be very handy since 4" IC-rated units are very difficult to find, if they make them at all.

2) In clothes closets, would we be allowed to use basement lampholders with a bare bulb as long as we use an LED bulb, rather than a CFL or incandescent?

Though I myself would have more leniency for a LED retrofit trim, it still comes down to listing and instructions as to what NEC will allow.

For your second question, how can you assure that someone would never change an Edison based lamp to an incandescent? 410.16 still has some requirements for fluorescent and LED source luminaires as well.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
No.

You need a fixture with a listing to meet the requirement.
We need deeper clarification here.

All luminaires are required to be listed.

410.16 tells us more information on exactly what is allowed in clothes closets. Incandescent luminaires do not have to be listed for use in the closet, they just need to meet the requirements in 410.16 if used in a clothes closet.

410.16 may allow a luminaire identified for the purpose to be used beyond the general limitations set in 410.16 though - but you probably will not find anything with an Edison lampholder identified for anything beyond what is typical for incandescent luminaires.
 

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I have a few questions about Code compliance regarding lighting fixtures, now that LED bulbs are readily available for a reasonable cost.

1) For recessed lighting, would we now be able to use non-IC rated units in insulated ceilings as long as we use an LED retrofit trim (with the trim & LED's in one piece)? If so, that would be very handy since 4" IC-rated units are very difficult to find, if they make them at all.

They are? We install thousands of 4" IC rated housings.
Halo H995ICAT (LED new construction)
Halo H995RICAT (LED remodel)
Halo H99ICAT (incandescent new construction)

Using a different trim is not going to change the IC rating of the housing. Many energy codes require recessed lights to be IC and Air Tight rated.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Using a different trim is not going to change the IC rating of the housing.
Many energy codes require recessed lights to be IC and Air Tight rated.

yep. has been so on the left coast for years.

i walked into a restaurant where an enterprising fellow had
installed LED screw in lamps from home dipsnit into the old
6" halo cans. didn't fly very far.

also, with regards to 60 watt cans in a ceiling with 5 watt
LED elements in them, for the purposes of energy code
compliance, and calculations, that fixture counts for 60 watts.
the can listing is what is used, not the element installed.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
We need deeper clarification here.

All luminaires are required to be listed.

410.16 tells us more information on exactly what is allowed in clothes closets. Incandescent luminaires do not have to be listed for use in the closet, they just need to meet the requirements in 410.16 if used in a clothes closet.

410.16 may allow a luminaire identified for the purpose to be used beyond the general limitations set in 410.16 though - but you probably will not find anything with an Edison lampholder identified for anything beyond what is typical for incandescent luminaires.

You strive to make things complicated

Simply put, putting a LED lamp in a lamp holder does not make an LED fixture.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Just curious, doesn't the trim and/or bulb also have to be listed for use with the recessed can ? I know Juno likes to spec that using any trim other than ones they manufacture voids their listing. Just because Halo is sold at HD doesn't necessarily mean you can purchase a Commercial Electric LED trim and use it with anyone's recessed can, irrespective of the wattage it claims to use. If I'm wrong on this would someone please say so.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Just curious, doesn't the trim and/or bulb also have to be listed for use with the recessed can ? I know Juno likes to spec that using any trim other than ones they manufacture voids their listing. Just because Halo is sold at HD doesn't necessarily mean you can purchase a Commercial Electric LED trim and use it with anyone's recessed can, irrespective of the wattage it claims to use. If I'm wrong on this would someone please say so.
That is sort of as tricky of a question as using one manufacturers "classified breaker" in another manufacturers panel.

The classified breaker is tested by it's manufacturer(A) for the purpose but is not recognized by the other manufacturer's (B) instructions, yet (B) probably also makes a classified breaker that they have tested or use in (A)'s panel:blink:
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
That is sort of as tricky of a question as using one manufacturers "classified breaker" in another manufacturers panel.

The classified breaker is tested by it's manufacturer(A) for the purpose but is not recognized by the other manufacturer's (B) instructions, yet (B) probably also makes a classified breaker that they have tested or use in (A)'s panel:blink:
Yes, I know but believe it or not I've had EI's break my chops over using (A) mfr.'s breaker in (B) mfr.'s panel and had to prove that they were listed for use in the respective panel.
 
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