480/277. Arc flash

[liquidtite]

Rite befor lunch on the job I was on we see ambulances driving by .
Then we see our general Forman run into his car and speed away.

toward a job were doin a mile down the road everyone on the jobsiye had a bad feeling .

turns out a mechanic from our company got injured and the ambulances was for him.

the next day gf wouldn't tell us anything about the inscodent just told everyone no
one works on live circuits and that oshsa will be coming by all jobs so wear safety gear.

the only way we found out the condition of our coworker was from a plumber on the job who said their was an explosion and the worker is burned up and you couldn't tell it was him his face was un recognizable .

we all felt terrible and tried to find out more

the plumber told us but who knows that he was working on live 480v
and thought he was landing a neutral bc it was mislabeled and

when he tried to land it in the enclosure it ach flached

and caught on fire . It was either a service or some type of feeders .
Or maybe it was a phase mislabeled and was a phase to phase we don't no.
again not sure on details bc the company is not telling us anything .


Actually the boss told me he was working in a dead switch with no power so

he dosnt know how this could of happened .

Although I feel like the mechanic should've tested all phases

with tester phase to phase and phase to ground to make shure what he was landing
I herd something was mislabeled down stream that's y I think it was phase to bc he wouldn't mistake a neutral for a phase conductor but who knows.

. Theirs no reason why he should be working on live equipment like this and now he

Is going to be disfigured and have injures for the rest of his life
and he got burned .

This is all could have been stoped if they did shut down or took better precation


feel terrible that this could've been stoped.

once I find out the details I'll know what exactly happened but shop won't tell us anything

seems like their tryin to cover their ass.

how many fines are they going to get?

im shure worker is going to sue?

i wish I new the details on what happened so I could understand better on the scenery


but info is hard to get .

 

[kwired]

Rite befor lunch on the job I was on we see ambulances driving by .
Then we see our general Forman run into his car and speed away.

toward a job were doin a mile down the road everyone on the jobsiye had a bad feeling .

turns out a mechanic from our company got injured and the ambulances was for him.

the next day gf wouldn't tell us anything about the inscodent just told everyone no
one works on live circuits and that oshsa will be coming by all jobs so wear safety gear.

the only way we found out the condition of our coworker was from a plumber on the job who said their was an explosion and the worker is burned up and you couldn't tell it was him his face was un recognizable .

we all felt terrible and tried to find out more

the plumber told us but who knows that he was working on live 480v
and thought he was landing a neutral bc it was mislabeled and

when he tried to land it in the enclosure it ach flached

and caught on fire . It was either a service or some type of feeders .
Or maybe it was a phase mislabeled and was a phase to phase we don't no.
again not sure on details bc the company is not telling us anything .


Actually the boss told me he was working in a dead switch with no power so

he dosnt know how this could of happened .

Although I feel like the mechanic should've tested all phases

with tester phase to phase and phase to ground to make shure what he was landing
I herd something was mislabeled down stream that's y I think it was phase to bc he wouldn't mistake a neutral for a phase conductor but who knows.

. Theirs no reason why he should be working on live equipment like this and now he

Is going to be disfigured and have injures for the rest of his life
and he got burned .

This is all could have been stoped if they did shut down or took better precation


feel terrible that this could've been stoped.

once I find out the details I'll know what exactly happened but shop won't tell us anything

seems like their tryin to cover their ass.

how many fines are they going to get?

im shure worker is going to sue?

i wish I new the details on what happened so I could understand better on the scenery


but info is hard to get .

Your company probably doesn't want to spread any rumors and have them get out of control before they know as much as possible themselves what actually happened.

They probably do need to issue some statement to their employees though and soon or rumors will be running wild anyway.

It would probably ease others minds and maybe slow the rumor mill down a little if they at least informed other employees with the name of injured, what his medical status is, a very general description of the incident, such as "he was working in/with _____ when an arc flash occurred, we are still investigating how and why this happened" and leave it at that until they know more. They very possibly have an attorney already telling them how to proceed.

If there were poor safety practices, it is too late. People will spill their guts on what they commonly saw for safety policies and practices, when there is OSHA investigations. Even the best safety policy will have flaws in it, but if they show they are trying it will make a big difference compared to if there is limited evidence that a safety policy is actively implemented.

 

[iwire]

Once OSHA is done all of it will be posted to the public

 

[liquidtite]

We know who was injured but no details.

we herd that the scene is taped off and a official investigation is ongoing

what do you think oshsa will do about this.

arnt you suppose to pull a special perment if your going to have a guy wrk on live 480v

And have flach suits .

 

[kwired]

We know who was injured but no details.

we herd that the scene is taped off and a official investigation is ongoing

what do you think oshsa will do about this.

arnt you suppose to pull a special perment if your going to have a guy wrk on live 480v

And have flach suits .

Believe it or not OSHA doesn't really directly tell you what you are supposed to do from what I understand. Your company does needs a safety policy and procedures for different employee hazards - including hazards created by the use/presence of electrical items/equipment. Suitability of that policy and procedures can come under scrutiny of OSHA though, which is why most just choose to utilize third party standards like NFPA 70e, which will require most of the things you mentioned if it is implemented as written.

 

[liquidtite]

So do you think the compAny will be getting some type of fines

 

[liquidtite]

It turned out the mechanic was mounting a disco into existing Buss duct

When the flach occurred.

after investigation the buss duct was not installed corectly and the neutral was tied to a hot

so when he landed the disco it shorted out.


but wouldn't the nuetral on a disco be isolated from enclosure.

or maybe it was bonded if it was feeding a service .

cnt believe someone would leave the dangerous buss duct knowing that it's ment

to attach discos too the system , And that it was a waiting time bomb .



Does this sound Poss I'm only going off word of mouth?

has any one ever heard off this happinng befor?

any time I see buss duct I will always check phasing

what a terrible instal .

if its true who ever put that equipment in should go to jail

 

[Haji]

Maintaining proper identification markings on the power conductors throughout the electrical installation would have eliminated the mishap.

 

[kwired]

Maintaining proper identification markings on the power conductors throughout the electrical installation would have eliminated the mishap.

You are saying it is impossible for someone to make a mistake or overlook something if it is marked properly?

 

[Haji]

I am saying there might be no maintenance personnel responsible for conductor identification marking in OP case and that might have led to that mishap.

 

[kwired]

I am saying there might be no maintenance personnel responsible for conductor identification marking in OP case and that might have led to that mishap.

Which could lower the risk, but not guaranteed to prevent what happened.

 

[wbdvt]

Bottom line, IMHO, was that a disconnect switch was being plugged into a bus duct while the bus duct was energized. From what I seen, bus duct manufacturers do not recommend this. This was also energized work that would have required an energized work permit signed by management.

I think OSHA will have plenty to cite on such as lack of proper PPE, probably lack of pre job briefing, etc.

 

[kwired]

Building owner probably did not want any shut down, EC failed to tell them there will be a shut down regardless if they are to connect this equipment.

Bet there is a shut down whenever it actually gets connected, or any repairs from this incident are performed.

 

[Haji]

Kwired: The mishap happened due to wrong conductor marking and my contention is maintenance personnel is accountable for it as they dd not find and rectify wrong marking.

 

[liquidtite]

I would think who ever installed the bus duct should be in trouble for installing a hazard and not having it up to code.

the inspectors for passing it

the maintance crew for not properly labeling it down stream

the owner of the building

And the gc for not pulling proper permit and not doing shut down on equipment

 

[big john]

I would think who ever installed the bus duct should be in trouble for installing a hazard and not having it up to code.

the inspectors for passing it

the maintance crew for not properly labeling it down stream

the owner of the building

And the gc for not pulling proper permit and not doing shut down on equipment

We work in a dangerous field. It's ultimately our responsibility to ensure our own safety. What if the duct had been wired correctly but he was installing a switch that had a defect?

At the minimum his employer is culpable for putting him in a position where he felt compelled to do that work hot. The company needs to back up their employees to create a safe work environment, otherwise a guy may feel like he's choosing between safety and employment.

But ultimately it was his decision to do it hot and without PPE. We've all made similar decisions, but we all get lucky until we don't.

 

[kwired]

Kwired: The mishap happened due to wrong conductor marking and my contention is maintenance personnel is accountable for it as they dd not find and rectify wrong marking.

So if it blows up in your face we can just chalk it up to someone else is at fault? Not my idea of fun, and not how I would intend to try to collect "easy money" from any lawsuits that come later. My guess is the guy this happened to has similar feelings about it.

Safe work practices still need to come into play, and even then stuff happens sometimes.

 

[liquidtite]

Very true sometimes I feel like I've been put in situations were I know

the proper way to do things would be to shut down power but if you say it's not safe and you don't want to work on live gear your job is on line .

i remember punching out into live switch gear, disconnects many times

even though I didn't want to i did bc I knew my boss would be pissed if I refused

. I can tell you after this happened i will never wrk on live equipment , it's not worth

dying or being disfigured to save your boss some money.

Coming home safe is the goal and I'm not going to risk that bc these bosses don't want to
upset their clients by shutjng down power.

 

[ADub]

What the op should really be concerned with isn't osha but the spelling and grammar police.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fulthrotl]

We know who was injured but no details.

nor will you.

there are federal laws against divulging medical information
to almost anyone. an offshoot of the AIDS disease, and nobody
being able to talk about the medical history of any employee, at all.

the vice president of my wife's corporation was injured
while bicycle riding last year. over the bars, neck injury,
and he became a quadrapalegic one sunny saturday.

legally, the ONLY thing that could be said, was that he was
out of the office until further notice. and that was all that
was said. no updates, no location for visitors, no place to
send flowers, nada.

for 8 months, until he returned to work, in a motorized wheelchair.

nobody knew squat about it. HR couldn't say anything to anyone.
the president of the company didn't know much more, until the
vice president called him at home and told him.

there is also the civil, and criminal aspects of violating NFPA 70E.
long before it became verboten to work stuff hot, an apprentice
was shoving a fish tape thru pvc, underground, got into the wrong
pipe, and ended up in a 480 volt panel, hot. it killed him.

this was in the late 70's, when you were only allowed to work stuff
hot in the last six months of your apprenticeship. that actually was
the law in calif.

he was a second year apprentice. the fine, back then, to the electrical
contractor, was $1.5 million. then there was the civil suit, by his family.

no person from your company will say squat about this after the general
counsel sits everyone down in a room, and explains the rules.

it's not just money. there is a criminal aspect of this that could merit jail time
for the person responsible for directing this employee's actions.

the ONLY time you can work stuff hot, is when it's more dangerous to NOT
work it hot.