30 Amp Electric Range-oven, Just a rant :-(

[goldstar]

I have a customer who lives in a small house along one of the lakes in my area. Her small 30 amp electric range/oven was on the fritz and she decided to get a new one from Sears. The rep from Sears SPECIFICALLY told her to have an electrician install a 4-wire, 30 amp receptacle for the new unit. Last week I went to her house, pulled out the old unit (which was hard wired) installed the receptacle and installed a 4-wire, 30 amp cord on the old unit so she could use it until the new one arrived. So far - so good right ?

Now, the delivery men from Sears show up, can barely speak English (and this is not about casting disparaging remarks about foreigners) and brought a 3-wire, 30 amp cord for the new unit. They proceed to tell my customer that they cannot install the new unit because the receptacle and cord I provided for the old unit was not meant for a range - it was meant for a dryer. I didn't think it was worth arguing with them for any length of time, they weren't going to understand me anyway, so I told them to just leave the unit and I would install the cord. When I got to the house they left the 3-prong cord (did they think I was going to change the receptacle?) and didn't even install the cleat for the rear foot of the oven so the range wouldn't tip forward when the oven door was opened. The other thing these companies DON'T do is remove the neutral-to-ground strap on a 4-wire install.

You get what you pay for. Unfortunately for my customer she had to pay me twice (and I'm sure in some bizarre way, she had to pay Sears as well). :rant::rant::rant:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The ground to neutral strap is probably one of the biggest violations around being that most installers, electricians as well, do not make sure this is done correctly.

 

[James L]

A lot of electricians mistakenly think a 30a receptacle is a "dryer" receptacle and that a 50a is a "range" receptacle. I've heard this fallacy with my own ears. Lots of electricians also think a range needs a 40a circuit and have no idea that there are various kw ratings

So I wouldn't expect a delivery guy to understand.

And for some reason, it seems to be an unwritten rule that whoever slides the range into the hole is responsible for installing the anti-tip bracket
:rant:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

To be honest I have never seen an oven that was not direct wired

 

[James L]

To be honest I have never seen an oven that was not direct wired

Even a freestanding range?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Even a freestanding range?

30 amps I am assuming it is a single oven-- if it is a range (cooktop and oven) then I have never seen one that small.

 

[James L]

30 amps I am assuming it is a single oven-- if it is a range (cooktop and oven) then I have never seen one that small.

I was thinking apartment size freestanding. Most single ovens I've installed required only a 15-amp circuit

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I was thinking apartment size freestanding. Most single ovens I've installed required only a 15-amp circuit

Interesting how different areas use different units. I have never seen an oven that was less than 30 amps. We don't do apartments so that may be the difference. Apartments usually have a free standing range and they can be small but I guess we never get to wire them.

 

[growler]

I have a customer who lives in a small house along one of the lakes in my area. Her small 30 amp electric range/oven was on the fritz and she decided to get a new one from Sears. The rep from Sears SPECIFICALLY told her to have an electrician install a 4-wire, 30 amp receptacle for the new unit. Last week I went to her house, pulled out the old unit (which was hard wired) installed the receptacle and installed a 4-wire, 30 amp cord on the old unit so she could use it until the new one arrived. So far - so good right ?

Now, the delivery men from Sears show up, can barely speak English (and this is not about casting disparaging remarks about foreigners) and brought a 3-wire, 30 amp cord for the new unit. They proceed to tell my customer that they cannot install the new unit because the receptacle and cord I provided for the old unit was not meant for a range - it was meant for a dryer. I didn't think it was worth arguing with them for any length of time, they weren't going to understand me anyway, so I told them to just leave the unit and I would install the cord. When I got to the house they left the 3-prong cord (did they think I was going to change the receptacle?) and didn't even install the cleat for the rear foot of the oven so the range wouldn't tip forward when the oven door was opened. The other thing these companies DON'T do is remove the neutral-to-ground strap on a 4-wire install.

You get what you pay for. Unfortunately for my customer she had to pay me twice (and I'm sure in some bizarre way, she had to pay Sears as well). :rant::rant::rant:

I think I would talk to Sears about this. When there is a 4-wire circuit available it's a code violation to install a 3-wire plug.

Have the customer call and complain that she had to pay an electrician twice because their installer didn't know what they were doing ( this should be shown on the invoice and be sure to spell idiot right).

 

[James L]

Interesting how different areas use different units. I have never seen an oven that was less than 30 amps. We don't do apartments so that may be the difference. Apartments usually have a free standing range and they can be small but I guess we never get to wire them.

Yeah, it's definitely a mind shift from one region to another. Here, I've installed Kenmore Elite, etc...

Those have single wall ovens with a total connected load in the neighborhood of 3.3kw @ 240v

When I was doing new construction, I installed a lot of GE Profile which had ratings of around 2.8 kw

 

[mbrooke]

I know it may not help... but Id call Sears and explain in detail. The more people speak out, the more likely their policy will change. And I hope the customer takes Sears to court, I would to.

 

[goldstar]

I think I would talk to Sears about this. When there is a 4-wire circuit available it's a code violation to install a 3-wire plug.

Have the customer call and complain that she had to pay an electrician twice because their installer didn't know what they were doing ( this should be shown on the invoice and be sure to spell idiot right).

I thought about that but it would require some effort on the customer's part. The amount of energy you would have to expend on talking to a bunch of morons is endless. Sears, like many other appliance sales companies, are interested in the SALE and couldn't care less what happens after the product leaves the warehouse. If they did they would have sent a delivery person with at least some knowledge.