Clearances....

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chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
Existing situation where underneath of a loading dock are two un-fused 600V rated disconnects and two control cabinets that contain, fuses, relays, contactors etc. which are all for some pumps. To gain access to the disconnects and control cabinets you must crawl through a 2'X2' access panel and then crawl on hands and knees to get over to the equipment because you can not stand up. Once you get to the equipment you are surrounded by metal piping which you must sit on to be able to examine the disconnects and control cabinet, there is hardly any room. I say this installation violates 110.26(A)(1)(2)(3) and OSHA REG 1910.303. What do you think? Am I missing anymore articles here?
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
where is the OCPD for the unfused disconnects located? Seems like you can certainly deenergize the control cabnets making them unlikely to be energized.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
I would refuse to perform any work on that equipment unless it was first deenergized, locked out, and tagged out. To do otherwise would present far too great a risk of electrocution. On the other hand, if there is any need to perform live work (e.g., thermography), then I would agree that the installation violates 110.26. My recommendation to the owner would be to have the equipment moved to a located that provides safe working clearances.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Considering the nature of the equipment (fuses, relays, etc) I would consider it a violation of 110.26.
Problem is, of course, if you don't work on it as is they will probably find someone that will. At 30, hungrier and dumber, I would have jumped in. Way many years later, possibly no smarter, but having seem too many accidents/injuries, I am in 100% agreement with Charlie b

( we had a similar situation on several pieces of equipment at a paper plant where I served as engineer. We move the controllers....ignoring the whining from the bean counters... to this day I am pleased with the decision)
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Existing situation where underneath of a loading dock are two un-fused 600V rated disconnects and two control cabinets that contain, fuses, relays, contactors etc. which are all for some pumps. To gain access to the disconnects and control cabinets you must crawl through a 2'X2' access panel and then crawl on hands and knees to get over to the equipment because you can not stand up. Once you get to the equipment you are surrounded by metal piping which you must sit on to be able to examine the disconnects and control cabinet, there is hardly any room. I say this installation violates 110.26(A)(1)(2)(3) and OSHA REG 1910.303. What do you think? Am I missing anymore articles here?

OSHA regulations are real-time. Everyone must comply with OSHA regulations all the time.

NEC compliance, however, is vested to the code edition under which the installation was done. If you want to prove a NEC violation you need to demonstrate which code edition applied at the time of installation and whether that code edition required something other than what was installed.

Telling the owner he has an OSHA violation should be enough to get him to make requisite changes without having to do all the legwork on the NEC.
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
where is the OCPD for the unfused disconnects located? Seems like you can certainly deenergize the control cabnets making them unlikely to be energized.

Regardless of that. The situation places an individual directly in front of energized equipment when testing/troubleshooting WITHOUT proper clearances.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Regardless of that. The situation places an individual directly in front of energized equipment when testing/troubleshooting WITHOUT proper clearances.

Chevy -- what the code requires & a personal opinion to me are different scenarios -- I see that 2 have agreed that there is a violation of 110.26(A) which has always been a debatable scenario on this forum.
( A) Working Space. Working space for equipment operating at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall comply with the dimensions of 110.26(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3) or as required or permitted elsewhere in this Code.
If you are able to turn of power to the equipment with a non fused disconnect within sight then the equipment is not energized -- How you test fuses, transformers, relays, contactors is your choice & I would agree that testing live is more convienient but is not a requirement. Would you require a single pole switch (a non fused disconnect) that is within sight then the equipment (say a sprinkler control) in a crawlspace, to be readily accessible with clearances?
That said, if your OCPD is not readily acessible with the ability to lock off and your disconnect was fused I would interprete that there is a violation of 110.26(A). I do not disagree with your safety concerns but per NEC I believe what you have described may be boarderline, but is a compliant install.
There a many scenarios that could change my interpretatioin -- for instance what is the rating of the disconnects 15 amp -- 400 amp? clearly could change the protocol on testing.
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
Do you suit up when doing that live troubleshooting or do you ignore that requirement?

I don't know how suiting up plays into whether or not clearances are an issue. And to answer your question we DON all of our PPE per our SOP's here. PITA but we do it.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I don't know how suiting up plays into whether or not clearances are an issue. And to answer your question we DON all of our PPE per our SOP's here. PITA but we do it.

I was curious if you where complaining about someone breaking the rules while you ignore the rules.

But you say you do not so I was wrong in what I was imagining.
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
I was curious if you where complaining about someone breaking the rules while you ignore the rules.

But you say you do not so I was wrong in what I was imagining.

I'm not complaining. I'm just looking for other opinions on this situation. Just double checking my thinking and code articles.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
Well I don't know how you use a clamp on amp meter when the circuit isn't LIVE?!



60A 600V 3P

Clamp on at the Branch circuit OCPD which is readily accessible -- we could discuss semantics all day & not get anywhere -- there is always several ways to test circuitry live or not.
 

chevyx92

Senior Member
Location
VA BCH, VA
Clamp on at the Branch circuit OCPD which is readily accessible -- we could discuss semantics all day & not get anywhere -- there is always several ways to test circuitry live or not.

You're missing the ENTIRE issue in OP. It's not whether or not someone can go trace a circuit to find where it's fed from just to take reading or not. The electrical equipment (control cabinets and disconnects) are the issue in regards to clearance and working space.
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
You're missing the ENTIRE issue in OP. It's not whether or not someone can go trace a circuit to find where it's fed from just to take reading or not. The electrical equipment (control cabinets and disconnects) are the issue in regards to clearance and working space.

You posed a question I answered -- simple -- Just because we do not agree on "NEC CODE" doesn't mean I am missing the point -- reread my comments & I do simpathize with the OP's cramped situation I just cannot completely justify failing an inspection on what the OP have presented. And it is about the equipment requiring to be energized while serviced. There is a difference in fused disconnects & disconnects & not all controls require ready access -- Not all good ideas are code enforceable
 
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