Chandilier swap out....25' high in foyer

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iwire said:
Again its going to be in the 800 to 1,000 pound range. Unless there are ramps its going to be a pain.
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Maybe so but did you happen to see the video in the link I posted ? The guy loaded that on into a pick-up truck by himself. Again, it's going to be a 2-man job I think you can get this particular model of a 1-man lift into the house.
 
mgookin said:
So it turned into a "beat up on Mike thread" over someone saying they like lazy people on their crew and now you want to say I'm saying anyone who doesn't get it done in half a day is incompetent? Really?
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NO one is trying to beat up on mike. This is a forum and people will have different opinions and that's the best thing about a forum.

Be honest I said that you are "implying" that if the work is not accomplished within a certain time frame that the workers are incompetent or lazy. If other say the job could take eight hours and your come back is that non-lazy workers could do it in four hour that is implying that workers that would take eight hour are lazy.

Have you ever actaully done one of these big chandeliers ( similar height and weight) in four hours ?
 
growler said:
NO one is trying to beat up on mike. This is a forum and people will have different opinions and that's the best thing about a forum.

Be honest I said that you are "implying" that if the work is not accomplished within a certain time frame that the workers are incompetent or lazy. If other say the job could take eight hours and your come back is that non-lazy workers could do it in four hour that is implying that workers that would take eight hour are lazy.

Have you ever actaully done one of these big chandeliers ( similar height and weight) in four hours ?
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:thumbsup: To bid under 2 men 8 hrs would be folly. If you do it faster, awesome (isn't that the goal of all contractors?)

And as stated above, anything over 4 hrs in a day typically means the day is shot for the contractor and his employees.
 
growler said:
NO one is trying to beat up on mike. This is a forum and people will have different opinions and that's the best thing about a forum.

Be honest I said that you are "implying" that if the work is not accomplished within a certain time frame that the workers are incompetent or lazy. If other say the job could take eight hours and your come back is that non-lazy workers could do it in four hour that is implying that workers that would take eight hour are lazy.

Have you ever actaully done one of these big chandeliers ( similar height and weight) in four hours ?
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Thank you for the earnest reply and I mean that sincerely. I can assure you that if that is what was perceived, it was a misunderstanding.

I've installed several chandeliers at 2 story foyers and I can't say one ever took 4 hours. Every time an elder passes away around here, one of the kids wants grandma's chandelier moved to their house. The most we ever had to do was install a 2x4 over the ceiling joists and that was if it was changing from a fixture to chandelier. The one in the picture looks small to me (15 lbs?).

To me a big chandelier is one that requires structural modifications to the building and a crane/ motorized lift to be installed. And then you need structural work, power & controls for the crane.

Last summer an associate I do business with told me he got a bid to hang a chandelier in the foyer of his house under construction and the bid was $3,500. I went and looked at the job and told him the bid is a fair deal. The height was 3 stories, it did need a crane to be installed, and there was structural & electrical work to be done. That was the basis of suggesting OP consider all these things.

In OP's picture, there's already a chandelier there. If it's changing out same size for same size and it's not a disaster to assemble, it's an easy job. How long do you think he'll be up on that scaffolding if this is the case?
 
mgookin said:
The one in the picture looks small to me (15 lbs?).
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I don't know what that one weighs. If it's brass plated it will be a lite-weight and if real brass and actually worth something it will weigh a lot more than it looks.

I have taken down a builder installed fixture (cheap one ) and installed a replacement of almost the same size but much difference in cost and weight.

To tell the truth I'm normally surprised at how little some fixtures weigh and how much others do.

The first chandelier of any size that I had to deal with taught me a lesson. Wasn't very heavy and wasn't very high but I was worth a little over 20 grand and it was leaded glass and old. I got lucky and talked the antique furniture movers into helping me with it because they were insured for such things. We go it down and in the lady's car and I told her not to hit any bumps hard on here way to the antique store. That old leaded glass scares the heck out of me.
 
Seriously. The only reason you'd need a ladder is to get into the attic. Set up a chandelier lift. This post is already too complicated.

I'm telling you, you don't need scaffolding. Just a ladder, a rope, a saw, your regular tools. If you have attic access.
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banion23 said:
Get into the attic and set up your chandelier lift. It is the way to go. You'll have a customer for life.

They used to have to lower chandeliers to replace the candles and dust/polish the unit. So you can do this just as well today. Get into the attic and cut around the box after tying it to the joist using an eyelet and a rope. Slowly lower the fixture to the ground. Now set up your box to tie the box on the new fixture to. Or go with a general use Recep and set it up cord and plug. Go downstairs and set up your replacement chandelier, tie it to your line, and pull it up until the scussion plate is flush. Now secure it in place. Wire or plug into your new box. Done. No need for scaffolding.

Keep in mind, get into the attic. The existing chandelier might actually be set up this way. If it was nicely installed you'd never know without getting in the attic.

Let me know how it goes.

You can MacGyver it, or you can set up scaffolding.

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banion23 said:
Seriously. The only reason you'd need a ladder is to get into the attic. Set up a chandelier lift. This post is already too complicated.

I'm telling you, you don't need scaffolding. Just a ladder, a rope, a saw, your regular tools. If you have attic access.
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If you don't mind me asking, what part of the country are you from ? I'm familiar with the old time chandelier lifting ropes but I don't really understand what you are talking about here.

I wonder about the use of "scussion plate".

How do you plan to secure that box once it's roped back up through the hole ?
How you are going to fix that ceiling if there is paint around the outside of escutheon plate?

You may have invented the better mouse trap but it needs more detail.
 
mgookin said:
The most we ever had to do was install a 2x4 over the ceiling joists and that was if it was changing from a fixture to chandelier. The one in the picture looks small to me (15 lbs?).

The pictured chandelier looks identical to a chandelier I take care of bulb wise.
I can assure you it is not small.
But they may make it in several sizes too.
Let's just say I wouldn't want it to fall on me.......
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growler said:
...

To tell the truth I'm normally surprised at how little some fixtures weigh and how much others do. ....
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I grew up in an old farm house and all the sconces were iron. I remember the first time I installed a "new" sconce about 40 years ago. It seemed like it was made out of paper.

qcroanoke said:
..
Let's just say I wouldn't want it to fall on me.......
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Don't want it to fall on anyone; customer first and us a far second. Hence the first building codes from 4k years ago.
 
growler said:
If you don't mind me asking, what part of the country are you from ? I'm familiar with the old time chandelier lifting ropes but I don't really understand what you are talking about here.

I wonder about the use of "scussion plate".

How do you plan to secure that box once it's roped back up through the hole ?
How you are going to fix that ceiling if there is paint around the outside of escutheon plate?

You may have invented the better mouse trap but it needs more detail.
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Secure the box with a spanner that can support the weight of the fixture. You can set this up from the ground. The scussion plate needs to be bigger than the hole.

There are videos on YouTube showing how to do it...it's hard for me to describe. It would take more to write it than for you to watch the vid. It's a very handy way of handling hard-to-reach fixtures.

Just think...you don't want the homeowner to have to rent scaffolding to replace the lamps.

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banion23 said:
Just think...you don't want the homeowner to have to rent scaffolding to replace the lamps.
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I really wouldn't care what the homeowner had to do to replace the lamps. The decision to have this type of constrution was theirs and not mine and so are all problems associated with it.

But most of the chandeliers are not hanging on the ceiling but somewhat lower so they can be relamped with a taller step ladder. If the homeowner wants to spend the money they can have a lift installed that will raise and lower the chandelier for relamping and cleaning and forget about the step ladder.

It's similar to what you are talking about but factory built and UL approved and not my responsibility except for installation.
 
banion23 said:
Secure the box with a spanner that can support the weight of the fixture. You can set this up from the ground. The scussion plate needs to be bigger than the hole.

There are videos on YouTube showing how to do it...it's hard for me to describe. It would take more to write it than for you to watch the vid. It's a very handy way of handling hard-to-reach fixtures.

Just think...you don't want the homeowner to have to rent scaffolding to replace the lamps.

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The DIY vid I saw the guy put a winch in the attic, cut the feed to the light, cut around the joist the box was secured to until he somehow could get the winch cable through the box. Then he would sister the joist if it was on one and cut away the rest of the joist the box was secured to and somehow loose the box so he could lower it. Bottom line is I don't know how you could do that for a customer. The Aladdin I installed has limit switches on it. The DIY did not. When I went back to my job to put in dimmers the HO said how the kids loved playing with the lift. (of course I told him it's not a toy, but think how much fun the kids would have had bouncing the $2000 chandelier off the floor then ramming it back up through the ceiling.:D)
 
GerryB said:
The DIY vid I saw the guy put a winch in the attic, cut the feed to the light, cut around the joist the box was secured to until he somehow could get the winch cable through the box. Then he would sister the joist if it was on one and cut away the rest of the joist the box was secured to and somehow loose the box so he could lower it. Bottom line is I don't know how you could do that for a customer. The Aladdin I installed has limit switches on it. The DIY did not. When I went back to my job to put in dimmers the HO said how the kids loved playing with the lift. (of course I told him it's not a toy, but think how much fun the kids would have had bouncing the $2000 chandelier off the floor then ramming it back up through the ceiling.:D)
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lol

having been gigged once for drilling a half inch hole in an engineered truss, there is no way i'd cut out a ceiling joist, engineered or not, without an engineer's approval
 
I did one about that size by myself in about 4 hours. I used HD scaffolding. Set it up and took it down all alone. Used several drop clothes underneath to prevent scratching. Rolled it over to the stairs and loaded the fixture tools up.

Hind sight. I ain't never doing that again... by myself.
 
iwire said:
Besides the weight there is the issue of it being a one man lift so you must be able to hold the fixture, wire it, secure it all by yourself.

With staging you can have help at the top.

Also most of those one man lifts have a 300 pound weight limit, for me that means the fixture and any tools had better be less than 80 pounds. :ashamed:
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Heh. Lightweight. If I'm on that lift that chandelier better be made of tinfoil and require only a pair of Kliens and a screwdriver to install. ;)
 
Chamuit said:
I did one about that size by myself in about 4 hours. I used HD scaffolding. Set it up and took it down all alone. Used several drop clothes underneath to prevent scratching. Rolled it over to the stairs and loaded the fixture tools up.

Hind sight. I ain't never doing that again... by myself.
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I set up 30 ft of scaffold by myself many years ago when I had more ambition and stamina then I have now. Had to check out why a ceiling fan in peak of a church wasn't working. Took maybe hour to hour and a half to set up, five minutes to troubleshoot the fan, and luckily was able to leave the scaffold sit until the next day when a replacement fan would be available.
 
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