Chandilier swap out....25' high in foyer

[growler]

I guess it depends on the house. Around here, most houses are slab on grade with maybe one 4" curb. That's not too hard to get in.

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I wish we had some of those homes around here but the homes with 22-25' foyers all have full basements and that means they end up above grade with lots of steps to get in the front.

I love the idea of useing a lift but it's just not practical. I hate ladders and I'm not in love with scaffolding.

 

[electricguy61]

Purchase some 4x8' sheets of 1/4" hard board to protect the floor. I suggest duct taping the sheets together. $50 worth of floor protection is well worth it, and it shows the customer you really care about his home.

 

[growler]

I'd bet 2 guys who are not lazy will get that done in a half day.

I think that is wishful thinking.

It's better to have lazy people for a job like this.

Lazy people tend to think about what they are doing and not get in a hurry. One mistake can cost more than all the time you will ever save. The last thing you want are a couple of goons trying to beat the clock.

Plus if I'm working on the job I know there is at least one lazy person.

 

[GerryB]

I have actually done this myself but I would say (from experience) that it's a two man job. You won't be able to work all that much faster with 2 men but at least you want kill yourself.

The last one I did also had a hug medallion to install and the fixture was very heavy (cast iron ) and it did take all day.

If your bid sounds high then you are at least in the right ball park. Think about it some more and see if you don't want to add a little.

I used scaffolding and had it delivered and picked up by the rental company. Figure that into the price. I used a couple layers of paper (paste board ) and then a drop cloth to protect floor. The main thing is not to damage anything and a little extra time doing prep work is not wasted.

The best way to deal with a heavy fixture is to lift and lower with a rope and pully and don't try to carry it up a ladder or stagging and don't try to hold it and wire it, that's what the rope is for.. There may be a master link in the chain or you may have to open and close on of the links. You will have to adjust the height ( maybe not the same as old fixture ) so make sure owner is at home.

You adjust for height and then make up the chain and then feed the lamp cord throught the chain to the box and leave a bit of slack in case they want re-adjust height.

The good thing is that you can bid these high because everyone that's ever done one will bid it high.

Lots of good points here. I just did one and the scaffold was $114 delivered and picked up. The only thing I would add is check your height! We were just able to reach ours with two scaffold sections and extending the levelers one foot. Our ceiling was 19'. We actually also installed the the Aladdin lift, did it all in 10 hours. Don't be shy as was said about the price. If there is a problem might have to come back the next day, etc. This customer left the fixture invoice there, $2200.00. Check your insurance

 

[mgookin]

I think that is wishful thinking.

Looking at the picture in the OP, would it really take longer than 4 hours to R&R that thing with 2 competent guys? One competent guy and a gopher should be able to do it in much less.

It's better to have lazy people for a job like this.

Lazy people tend to think about what they are doing and not get in a hurry. One mistake can cost more than all the time you will ever save. The last thing you want are a couple of goons trying to beat the clock.

Plus if I'm working on the job I know there is at least one lazy person.

Lazy and smart/ careful/ diligent are not the same. I'm all for work smart not hard.

But some stoned kid who you can never find when you need him is not the type of lazy that a job, or a company, benefits from, and that's lazy.

 

[kwired]

It's better to have lazy people for a job like this.

Lazy people tend to think about what they are doing and not get in a hurry. One mistake can cost more than all the time you will ever save. The last thing you want are a couple of goons trying to beat the clock.

Plus if I'm working on the job I know there is at least one lazy person.

Looking at the picture in the OP, would it really take longer than 4 hours to R&R that thing with 2 competent guys? One competent guy and a gopher should be able to do it in much less.



Lazy and smart/ careful/ diligent are not the same. I'm all for work smart not hard.

But some stoned kid who you can never find when you need him is not the type of lazy that a job, or a company, benefits from, and that's lazy.

Shouldn't take more then 4 hours once on site and assuming you have all that you need.

I wasn't sure how I was going to reply to growler, but I like what you said about lazy and smart/careful/diligent not being the same.

Some lazy people will be careless and in a hurry so they can get back to being lazy again:happyyes:

 

[ActionDave]

Looking at the picture in the OP, would it really take longer than 4 hours to R&R that thing with 2 competent guys? One competent guy and a gopher should be able to do it in much less.....

Swapping the fixture isn't hard, but everything leading up to getting up to the fixture, and everything involved getting down, along with everything in between will eat up a day and maybe even some more.

Once you start working beyond needing a step stool everything takes longer. The higher you go the longer it takes, and the scale is not linear.

 

[kwired]

Ceiling that high often has a lot of window, knock out the window and park bucket truck just outside and extend boom through window to change chandelier

 

[iwire]

Looking at the picture in the OP, would it really take longer than 4 hours to R&R that thing with 2 competent guys? One competent guy and a gopher should be able to do it in much less.

When I was bidding I would not have looked at that way.

I would think there is darn little chance that they will get done early enough to be productive at another job and I would bid it with the expectation I am paying the guys for 8 even if I think they might be done in 5 or 6 hours.

 

[jmellc]

If you must quote it, go at least for 2 men a full day, plus scaffold rental, plus all the floor protection, etc, and include some clause about unknowns. Chandeliers can be a lot of work and will be heavy to manage and hang.

Do it T & M if you can, to avoid any possibility of losing. No telling what may come up. You may get the old light down and discover that the box isn't suitable for the new one. I have seen such things happen. Or the weight limit may hamper you, with no easy way to give independent support. Ceiling may crack when you get old light off, may crumble as you struggle with the new one. Husband & wife may disagree on something about how long a chain, etc. and may want you to to lower and raise it several times for them to look at.

Don't fall for any whining about the cost. They didn't try to save any money with such a fancy house or when they bought such fixtures. Don't let them save the money on your part of the deal.

 

[iwire]

I guess it depends on the house. Around here, most houses are slab on grade with maybe one 4" curb. That's not too hard to get in.

Fair point and I had not even considered that.

Around me all homes have at least a few steps.

 

[JFletcher]

Fair point and I had not even considered that.

Around me all homes have at least a few steps.

Here most every home has 3-8 steps, which wouldnt be impossible, but the gravel, steep-grade driveways and mushy yards would make moving a 700lb lift a 4 man job.

97catintenn, I'd wire the new light on the ground before hanging it. It would royally suck to get the new chandelier up and mounted 25' to find it has a problem requiring removal.

 

[growler]

I'd bet 2 guys who are not lazy will get that done in a half day.

Looking at the picture in the OP, would it really take longer than 4 hours to R&R that thing with 2 competent guys? One competent guy and a gopher should be able to do it in much less.

After a number of electricians that have infact installed chandeliers a number of times give the opinion that this could easily be an all day job you imply that if said job is not done in your guesstimated time frame that the installers are not only lazy but incompetent. I felt obliged to defend those of us that may be branded as motivationally challenged.


What does looking at the picture in the OP have to do with anything? It's going to look the same a 18 ft as at 25 ft. That's the chandelier that's to be removed and we have no idea what the replacement looks like. Got any idea where he will have to park or how far to carry tools and equipment. Any assembly of new chandelier? Any furniture to be moved?

Now, if you want to speculate that if everything goes perfect (slim chance) that two guys may install a chandelier and be out of there in half a day I will agree. I have installed two chandeliers in less than a day by myself but I was lucky and they were only about 19 ft AFF and things did go very well. At other times things have not gone as well.

 

[tkb]

Even if my lazy incompetent guys could remove and replace this in 4 hours, I would still not quote this for less than 16 man hours, scaffold rental and protection.

 

[banion23]

Get into the attic and set up your chandelier lift. It is the way to go. You'll have a customer for life.

They used to have to lower chandeliers to replace the candles and dust/polish the unit. So you can do this just as well today. Get into the attic and cut around the box after tying it to the joist using an eyelet and a rope. Slowly lower the fixture to the ground. Now set up your box to tie the box on the new fixture to. Or go with a general use Recep and set it up cord and plug. Go downstairs and set up your replacement chandelier, tie it to your line, and pull it up until the scussion plate is flush. Now secure it in place. Wire or plug into your new box. Done. No need for scaffolding.

Keep in mind, get into the attic. The existing chandelier might actually be set up this way. If it was nicely installed you'd never know without getting in the attic.

Let me know how it goes.

You can MacGyver it, or you can set up scaffolding.

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[mgookin]

After a number of electricians that have infact installed chandeliers a number of times give the opinion that this could easily be an all day job you imply that if said job is not done in your guesstimated time frame that the installers are not only lazy but incompetent. I felt obliged to defend those of us that may be branded as motivationally challenged.


What does looking at the picture in the OP have to do with anything? It's going to look the same a 18 ft as at 25 ft. That's the chandelier that's to be removed and we have no idea what the replacement looks like. Got any idea where he will have to park or how far to carry tools and equipment. Any assembly of new chandelier? Any furniture to be moved?

Now, if you want to speculate that if everything goes perfect (slim chance) that two guys may install a chandelier and be out of there in half a day I will agree. I have installed two chandeliers in less than a day by myself but I was lucky and they were only about 19 ft AFF and things did go very well. At other times things have not gone as well.

growler:

Lazy = unwilling to work. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=lazy definition.
If someone on here wants "unwilling to work" people on their crew, that' their prerogative.

Two "non-lazy" greenhorns would be the wrong crew. They would destroy the job. I think we can all agree on that. Hence the need for competent staffing on the job.

If you look at my post I was the first guy to suggest OP consider how much it will take to assemble it, to protect the floor, determine whether the existing support will carry the new fixture, whether the job requires any more wiring, etc.

So it turned into a "beat up on Mike thread" over someone saying they like lazy people on their crew and now you want to say I'm saying anyone who doesn't get it done in half a day is incompetent? Really?

Did I suggest he bid it for a half day job? No. I suggested he consider it a full day job and if all goes well and it takes half a day, discount some of that time back to the customer. It's good business.

So I think we have similar opinions about the project but obviously we have different ways of expressing our professional opinions. And your interpretation of my post is quite bizarre.

 

[JFletcher]

just a thought, since a large portion of the job cost will be the ladder/scaffold/lift cost and extra labor working that high up, you might be able to upsell other work, like changing std/cfl can lights to LED, replace the smoke alarm, put in a paddle fan (or at least the new box and wiring), etc.

jmellc mentioned " and include some clause about unknowns." some things not already mentioned would be moving furniture to set up the ladder/scaffold/lift, removing(and replacing) attic flooring to get to the box, moving items stored in the attic, having different wattage/ color temp (K) bulbs on hand to try out, taking the existing chandelier to a place like Re-store... lots of things that could make extra money, or be a huge time sink.

 

[John120/240]

Any assembly of new chandelier? Any furniture to be moved?

Now, if you want to speculate that if everything goes perfect (slim chance) that two guys may install a chandelier and be out of there in half a day I will agree.
At other times things have not gone as well.

Did one with a Grandfather clock in the corner. Moving the clock was not an option. As far as fixture assembly that can take any where from one hour to ??? Hanging crystal dangles can take hours. Bid it High & go Higher

 

[George Stolz]

I am feeling better about a job we have at the end of the week; 206 lbs, 72" wide, $10k MSRP. I was north of $2500 for hanging one fixture with a light lift. I don't recall seeing a thread about this before, weird timing.

 

[ActionDave]

I am feeling better about a job we have at the end of the week; 206 lbs, 72" wide, $10k MSRP. I was north of $2500 for hanging one fixture with a light lift. I don't recall seeing a thread about this before, weird timing.

Oh? Wait!! You want it to turn on, light up the room, turn off....that's extra.