Is an Aluminum Wiring prohibition along coastal areas justified.

[DavidWalton]

I am in the process of updating our city ordinances to adopt the 2015 I Codes and make necessary changes to our amendments. I need an honest fact based answer to the question regarding use of aluminum wiring in areas with corrosive atmospheres. We are on the Texas Gulf Coast and in a Hurricane prone area.

Our current ordinance reads:

(4) Any and all codereferences permitting or requiring aluminum wire shall not be applicable,except when used as an option in underground service to the electric utilitymeter or when all of the following requirements are met: (a) The building consists of at least 3 storiesor 75,000 sq. ft.;
· (b) The building electrical service from theutility provider is480Y/277V, 3 phase, 4 wire;
(c)· The building has a main service of1600 Amps or larger;
(d)· The building Main Service DisconnectingMeans is of Switchboard Construction. (Buildings served with Gutter andDisconnect Switch configurations will not be permitted to use above groundaluminum feeders.);
(e) All aluminum conductors are compression type conductors and use penetroxwith compression termination fittings;
(f)· The electrical contractor providesthe number of lugs and proper lug sizes to accept the larger aluminum conductorsizes required;
(g)· Aluminum feeders are not used toserve chillers, elevators or equipment utilizing variable frequency drives;
(h)· Aluminum conductors are not used onthe secondary side of step down transformers; and
(i)· Aluminumconductors are only to be used on feeders that are 200Amps and larger.

I want to redact this prohibition for the following reasons.

• 2014 NEC does not limit the use of aluminum wiring along coastlines.
  
• NEC provides installation requirements for aluminum wiring systems.
  
• Our ordinance lists specific products to be used at installation.
  
• This could provide savings to the building owners.
  

Can someone point me to research or data that would justify the prohibition? Our former BO did quite a bit of shooting from the hip and based decisions upon personal preference and prejudice.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I do believe aluminum was an issue with corrosive environments and , in fact, the nec prohibits aluminum around pools where there is corrosive conditions. Salt is tough on everything but I cannot say that it is justified to disallow it's use. I would not want it on my house but...

 

[Fulthrotl]

I am in the process of updating our city ordinances to adopt the 2015 I Codes and make necessary changes to our amendments. I need an honest fact based answer to the question regarding use of aluminum wiring in areas with corrosive atmospheres. We are on the Texas Gulf Coast and in a Hurricane prone area.

Our current ordinance reads:

(e) All aluminum conductors are compression type conductors and use penetroxwith compression termination fittings;

I want to redact this prohibition for the following reasons.

• 2014 NEC does not limit the use of aluminum wiring along coastlines.
  
• NEC provides installation requirements for aluminum wiring systems.
  
• Our ordinance lists specific products to be used at installation.
  
• This could provide savings to the building owners.
  

Can someone point me to research or data that would justify the prohibition? Our former BO did quite a bit of shooting from the hip and based decisions upon personal preference and prejudice.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

in my experience, take (e) above, and put language there
to provide for either a cold shrink, or hot shrink covering of
the crimp area, using a UL listed wet location shrink, and
you can use aluminum anywhere. lose the rest of the requirements.

if it's highpressed, and has a 600 volt direct burial heat
shrink on the ferrule, port of long beach waved their requirement
for all copper conductors on two of my jobs. both of them were
within 100' of seawater.

 

[petersonra]

does the power company use aluminum?

 

[mgookin]

I think the position that between the NEC and FEMA's coastal construction regulations, there all the necessary regulation in place without local amendments. In Florida if you named a brand name as he did, your ordinance would be unlawful.

If you search google for "Does hurricane rain contain salt?" you'll find paper after paper saying that rain from a hurricane does not contain salt. The most easily understood examples they provide is that if you take a bowl of water and add salt and wait for the water to evaporate, you'll have dry salt in the bottom of the bowl in the exact amount which you added. This means only saltwater splash and saltwater flooding are prone to cause corrosion, and the same thing happens with copper. There are standards for repair of flooded building wiring systems and they do not delineate between salt water and fresh water. All water contains elements besides hydrogen & oxygen.

It is my opinion his local amendments should be rescinded.

 

[DavidWalton]

does the power company use aluminum?

Yes the power company uses aluminum conductors for all aerial lines in its distribution system. Our prohibition applies from the meter box throughout the house.

I think the position that between the NEC and FEMA's coastal construction regulations, there all the necessary regulation in place without local amendments. In Florida if you named a brand name as he did, your ordinance would be unlawful.

If you search google for "Does hurricane rain contain salt?" you'll find paper after paper saying that rain from a hurricane does not contain salt. The most easily understood examples they provide is that if you take a bowl of water and add salt and wait for the water to evaporate, you'll have dry salt in the bottom of the bowl in the exact amount which you added. This means only saltwater splash and saltwater flooding are prone to cause corrosion, and the same thing happens with copper. There are standards for repair of flooded building wiring systems and they do not delineate between salt water and fresh water. All water contains elements besides hydrogen & oxygen.

It is my opinion his local amendments should be rescinded.

Thank you for the FEMA resource, I will look into that.

There are a number of jurisdictions here in the Houston area that prohibit aluminum wiring. Having spoken to a number of my colleagues the feeling is that our high humidity and South Texas heat, in addition to our close proximity to the gulf causes a condition corrosive to the exposed portions of aluminum wiring. If this is based on opinion and not research, then I will move to strike the prohibition from our ordinance.

Thank you for all your help thus far.

 

[jaylectricity]

Hurricane rain may not necessarily have salt, but if you've lived on any coast you know that the air can still contain salt. You can smell it. Look at any light fixture on any beach house and notice how differently they corrode than in other areas.

In my opinion there is more corrosion. Could it be tempered with sealing type connectors? Sure. But even those take more of a beating on the coast.

I don't know if it's drastic enough to warrant the prohibition, but it cannot be denied that the elements are there.

In one town here in MA you have to use copper to attach to the service drop. But you can still use aluminum feeders in the rest of the building.

 

[aek32309]

Hurricane rain may not necessarily have salt, but if you've lived on any coast you know that the air can still contain salt. You can smell it. Look at any light fixture on any beach house and notice how differently they corrode than in other areas.

In my opinion there is more corrosion. .

My thoughts exactly, although I must add that I do not smell the salty air anymore but I remember the times when I did. So, when hurricane or a strong wind hits , it can bring mist which is full of salt.

The problem with aluminum is that it is very reactive, while copper is not. We normally do not see it because aluminum is usually protected by an aluminum oxide layer, but once it is damaged the reaction will proceed very fast. Aluminum can even react with hot steam! And acid will kill poor Al right away. If you leave an aluminum tray with ketchup for a night you may see small little holes in it next day.
So, if you just have a nice pure rain water nothing will really happen, but once you get all that "electrolytes" in the salty water, you now have a nice setup for a fast corrosion.
There is some progress in understanding how to use the aluminum wire and how to solve compatibility issues, but I would err on the side of caution in coastal areas.

 

[JoeyD74]

Hurricane rain may not necessarily have salt, but if you've lived on any coast you know that the air can still contain salt. You can smell it. Look at any light fixture on any beach house and notice how differently they corrode than in other areas.

In my opinion there is more corrosion. Could it be tempered with sealing type connectors? Sure. But even those take more of a beating on the coast.

I don't know if it's drastic enough to warrant the prohibition, but it cannot be denied that the elements are there.

In one town here in MA you have to use copper to attach to the service drop. But you can still use aluminum feeders in the rest of the building.

Swampscott by any chance?

 

[jaylectricity]

Swampscott by any chance?

Good guess, but I'm talking about Hull.

 

[iwire]

Good guess, but I'm talking about Hull.

Yeah, I just about started drooling when a Hull electric truck pulled up with a 1,000' spool of 4/0 copper quadplex hanging on the back of the truck to put a drop in for me.

Might as well hang a pot of gold off the back of the truck.

 

[JoeyD74]

Good guess, but I'm talking about Hull.

Years ago, maybe 02, the company I was working for sent me to Swampscott for a service upgrade and we used aluminum as usual. The inspector wouldn't sign off on the job because of the aluminum and my boss at the time battled him and in the end said FU don't sign off on it and that was it.

 

[jaylectricity]

Years ago, maybe 02, the company I was working for sent me to Swampscott for a service upgrade and we used aluminum as usual. The inspector wouldn't sign off on the job because of the aluminum and my boss at the time battled him and in the end said FU don't sign off on it and that was it.

Yeah, that same thing would happen in Hull. BUT...when you go to pull the permit the POCO requirements are right there on the desk you use to fill out the application. They might even be stapled to the application. And I don't mean like the whole blue-book, just the unusual couple of rules that you wouldn't assume to be the case. The other one being that a bypass lever being required for all services 200A and above.

 

[kwired]

How far from shore line are we talking before salts in the air are no longer a problem? I have no experience with this environment and can count on my fingers how many times I have even been close to a saltwater body.

I would have to assume that water evaporating will leave salts behind, but if you consider saltwater spray, when waves hit the shore you might have some evaporation of airborne water and then salts in that water are left behind in mid air, but how far they may travel before dropping out of the air I haven't a clue, but imagine it would depend on the current conditions.

 

[iwire]

How far from shore line are we talking before salts in the air are no longer a problem? I have no experience with this environment and can count on my fingers how many times I have even been close to a saltwater body.

Not far, as has been mentioned the only salt that comes in is carried by the wind from the surf and it will fall out of suspension soon.

That is not to say it is not a thing, the amusement park I worked at was right on a salt water bay and things like aluminum bus in NEMA 3R cabinets did not like the environment.

 

[kwired]

Not far, as has been mentioned the only salt that comes in is carried by the wind from the surf and it will fall out of suspension soon.

That is not to say it is not a thing, the amusement park I worked at was right on a salt water bay and things like aluminum bus in NEMA 3R cabinets did not like the environment.

So are we talking about maybe first 1000 feet from the shore is the worst, beyond that only during high winds you maybe have some issues but get a mile or two away and it isn't normally an issue?

 

[kwired]

I guess where I am going with this is, I don't see the need for a city wide requirement if only portions of the city, and possibly fairly limited portions of the city, are effected by the issue.

 

[iwire]

So are we talking about maybe first 1000 feet from the shore is the worst, beyond that only during high winds you maybe have some issues but get a mile or two away and it isn't normally an issue?

I think that is a reasonable guess. In some cases worse, some better as always.

If you are not living at the ocean you can smell the salt when you get within a about mile or closer dependent on winds of course.

 

[jaylectricity]

I guess where I am going with this is, I don't see the need for a city wide requirement if only portions of the city, and possibly fairly limited portions of the city, are effected by the issue.

Valid point. Now the town I'm talking about is a curved peninsula so it is surrounded by salt water on all sides but one. So regardless of which way the wind is blowing, salt is traveling into some part of town or another.

 

[DavidWalton]

AS the crow flies, we are 15 miles from the coast.

Thank you everybody for your replies.