8cu in box, question

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JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
We are doing a kitchen island. The sides are 1" thick wood. Question is, will an 8cu in box be compliant with one 12/2 NM and a receptacle? tmk, there is a 2.25cu deduction for every wire (6.75cu) + 2 cu in for the receptacle (no internal clamps) = 8.75cu>8cu = not up to code. Is there an exception for the ground like pancake boxes have? A box more than 1" deep may/will interfere with the drawers/racks on them. Options?
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Duplex receptacle requires double volume allowance based on largest connected conductor, so (3 wires + 2 per strap) × 2.25in³ = 11.25in³.

I was initially going to suggest 15A #14, but you'd still have (5) × 2.00in³ = 10.00in³.


Check for a location that will not interfere with drawers or racks...
 

Dennis Alwon

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Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
We are doing a kitchen island. The sides are 1" thick wood. Question is, will an 8cu in box be compliant with one 12/2 NM and a receptacle? tmk, there is a 2.25cu deduction for every wire (6.75cu) + 2 cu in for the receptacle (no internal clamps) = 8.75cu>8cu = not up to code. Is there an exception for the ground like pancake boxes have? A box more than 1" deep may/will interfere with the drawers/racks on them. Options?


Tell me about this exception for pancake boxes
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
2 cu in for the receptacle
No, as Smart says, each device yoke counts as two conductors and they are given the cubic inch value of the largest gauge connected to the device on the yoke, in your case 2.25 cubic inches time two for a total of 4.5 cubic inches per the receptacle device yoke.

Is there an exception for the ground like pancake boxes have?
There is no exception in a pancake box that allows us to ignore the volume of the EGC if it is a wire brought into the box by the wiring method. You might be thinking of grounded wiring method like metallic raceway or something like AC cable or MC-AP cable where the EGC is the cable or raceway, and a wire-type bond between the luminaire and the grounded pancake box begins and ends inside the box. . . that little bond wire we are allowed to ignore. But if the wiring method is NM-B, say, then the EGC has to be given a cubic inch volume.

A box more than 1" deep may/will interfere with the drawers/racks on them. Options?
It's not pretty, but you can place a Wiremold box extension over the existing 1" deep box to increase the overall box volume.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Tell me about this exception for pancake boxes

2008 NEC, 314.16(I) exception. Not so much for the box but for a domed light or similar canopy.

eta: ty all for the replies so far. re: the Sillite, it's deeper than a box and since I need the receptacle in the side, not the top, and it cant be wired from the side, it probably wont work. Im sure with a bit more digging I can find a box large enough and shallow enough, maybe something like this will work.
 
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augie47

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Location
Tennessee
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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
If depth is your only problem (you have extra width), they make a shallow box with a side compartment which gives you more cu in.

I don't have access to that cat # at the moment
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Wow thats interesting, I usually run MC if I am in a kitchen cabinet can you terminate MC in one of those?

We install quite a few of those in window sills for holiday lighting. They are pricey at $15-25ea. afaik they are for NM only. I still dont understand how they are compliant with more than one cable as device removal would interrupt grounding conductor continuity and there is no j-box that would fit in the 2 1/8" hole they use. :?
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
Not the neutral, the ground... thought grounds couldnt be interrupted by device removal on any circuit, or am I imagining code again?

You aren't imagining anything-

250.148(B) says device removal cannot interrupt EGC continuity.:)

If someone was using the scr for feed thru they could split and remove a portion of the nm jacket for a couple of inches or so, exposing the wires, then strip off enough insulation off the H&N to loop around the conductor, loop egc- you would loop all of the wires and continuity would be maintained. Or if there is enough room, egc continuity can also be maintained by doing a Y splice and using a buchanan- egc excess protruding from end of splice cap would wrap around egc terminal.
 
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Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
You aren't imagining anything-

250.148(B) says device removal cannot interrupt EGC continuity.:)

If someone was using the scr for feed thru they could split and remove a portion of the nm jacket for a couple of inches or so, exposing the wires, then strip off enough insulation off the H&N to loop around the conductor, loop egc- you would loop all of the wires and continuity would be maintained. Or if there is enough room, egc continuity can also be maintained by doing a Y splice and using a buchanan- egc excess protruding from end of splice cap would wrap around egc terminal.
The title of 250.148 is "Continuity and Attachment of Equipment Grounding Conductors to Boxes."

Where is the box? (rhetorical)

How does 250.148 apply if there is no box? (also rhetorical)
 

user 100

Senior Member
Location
texas
The title of 250.148 is "Continuity and Attachment of Equipment Grounding Conductors to Boxes."

Where is the box? (rhetorical)

How does 250.148 apply if there is no box? (also rhetorical)

:thumbsup:Got it- the device may not be "considered" a box- there is no definition of "box".

If that is no good another one that would apply here probably then would be 110.3(B)- unless the egc terminal is rated for 2 egcs, it has to be pigtailed/ looped.
 
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