GFCI, AFCI for Furnace

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goldstar

goldstar

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New Jersey
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Electrical Contractor
mbrooke said:
But your not going to prevent a fire with one. The breaker is still going to trip fast enough on a short circuit and arcing is the end stage of joule heating- not the beginning. NFPA just aims at being the personification of this:


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You only posted 3 pillars. There are actually 5 orders of architecture - Tuscan, Doric, Ionic, Corinthian and Composite. Do you know which is which ? :)
 
romex jockey

romex jockey

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Vermont
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electrician
Anecdotally, I do biz on the skibunny superhighway , where there are more 2nd homes than permanent residences.

Freeze ups are not uncommon in my arena , and i've personally been involved in a number of them due to afci's on furnaces.

One character actually insisted his sparky (far south of me) would put them on afci, so i should & did.... and it tripped, and caused just as much if not more damage as a fire.

Said character then reneged , placing me in a liable situation

So, as an EC, i'm not doing it again, i've even told my ahj he can write me up & fine me

yes, the punishment justifies the crime....no, i'm not sorry....:happyno:

~RJ~
 
M

mlnk

Senior Member
Read the Code. GFCI and AFCI not required for furnace unless it is installed in your living room
 
mbrooke

mbrooke

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romex jockey said:
Anecdotally, I do biz on the skibunny superhighway , where there are more 2nd homes than permanent residences.

Freeze ups are not uncommon in my arena , and i've personally been involved in a number of them due to afci's on furnaces.

One character actually insisted his sparky (far south of me) would put them on afci, so i should & did.... and it tripped, and caused just as much if not more damage as a fire.

Said character then reneged , placing me in a liable situation

So, as an EC, i'm not doing it again, i've even told my ahj he can write me up & fine me

yes, the punishment justifies the crime....no, i'm not sorry....:happyno:

~RJ~
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Don't be sorry- the NFPA clearly isn't.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

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ptonsparky said:
Put the furnace in the Equipment Room. That holds the Furnace, Water Heater, Water Softener, Central Vacuum System, Pressure tank and Electrical Panel. Maybe the freezer. That room description does not come close to "...or similar rooms or areas."

Keep the spare bed out of it at least until the inspector is gone.
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So the equipment room is not similar to a closet? I think this can be argued
 
PaulMmn

PaulMmn

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Union, KY, USA
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EIT - Engineer in Training, Lafayette College
goldstar said:
Aside from all the NEC Bible discussion about this, who among you (and let's have a show of hands) would want an AFCI protected circuit on their furnace during a winter snow storm when it's about 6 degrees outside ? Code requirement or not, this is a bad idea IMHO.
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It all depends... what kinds of arcs do the AFCIs detect? I just had my furnace overhauled last night. It's a fuel oil furnace. Oil is pumped through a spray nozzle into the combustion chamber, where the 120 volt supply is boosted through a transformer to create an electric arc of between 10,000 and 14,000 volts which zaps the oil mist to make sure it ignites. It appears there are two versions-- one with a continuous arc, the other just until the photoelectric sensor sees the light of the burning fuel.

Now... will an AFCI react to this arc?

It is in the basement, so a GFCI (or the industrial high-current version) wouldn't be bad... lest all the air grates in the house become charged...
 
mbrooke

mbrooke

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ptonsparky said:
Put the furnace in the Equipment Room. That holds the Furnace, Water Heater, Water Softener, Central Vacuum System, Pressure tank and Electrical Panel. Maybe the freezer. That room description does not come close to "...or similar rooms or areas."

Keep the spare bed out of it at least until the inspector is gone.
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Unless it has a window or escape hatch it can not be used as a bedroom / sleeping space.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
romex jockey said:
So, as an EC, i'm not doing it again, i've even told my ahj he can write me up & fine me

yes, the punishment justifies the crime....no, i'm not sorry....:happyno:

~RJ~
Click to expand...
They can fine you all they want, you still have to comply with code before they will clear your permit, issue COA, etc. Failure to correct deficiencies can even result in ordering POCO to disconnect the service in many places.

Some inspectors may even feel the same way you do but still must enforce the code.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
PaulMmn said:
It all depends... what kinds of arcs do the AFCIs detect? I just had my furnace overhauled last night. It's a fuel oil furnace. Oil is pumped through a spray nozzle into the combustion chamber, where the 120 volt supply is boosted through a transformer to create an electric arc of between 10,000 and 14,000 volts which zaps the oil mist to make sure it ignites. It appears there are two versions-- one with a continuous arc, the other just until the photoelectric sensor sees the light of the burning fuel.

Now... will an AFCI react to this arc?

It is in the basement, so a GFCI (or the industrial high-current version) wouldn't be bad... lest all the air grates in the house become charged...
Click to expand...

Wont detect an arc on the other side of an isolation transformer, probably not through an autotransformer either.

However AFCI and even GFCI's can be subject to tripping if there is any inductive kickback produced in the application. Which is often kind of random trips rather than predicable trips when this happens.
 
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