- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
AFCIs have been in the NEC since 1996. CAFCI are for where you need AFCI and GFCI, such as kitchen. And if you replace a receptacle it has to be AFCI and or GFCI.
Separate lighting and receptacle circs?
- Thread starter ritelec
- Start date
- Status
AFCIs have been in the NEC since 1996. CAFCI are for where you need AFCI and GFCI, such as kitchen. And if you replace a receptacle it has to be AFCI and or GFCI.
CAFCI's are ones that detect both parallel and series arc. You are referring to 'dual function' AFCI/GFCI breakers.
MAC702
Senior Member
- Location
- Clark County, NV
And was the breaker actually telling you there was a real problem that needed correction? Or was it the usual reason?
So how do you fix a 'nuisance' trip?
MAC702
Senior Member
- Location
- Clark County, NV
You try to keep a straight face while handing over the bill while telling the customer that the new breaker PROBABLY fixed it.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
My last solution was to swap the circuit wires with the AFCI next to it, as one particular bedroom light seemed to be the trigger.
So far, I've not heard back, and that was over a year ago.
I wouldn't be billing for a "Let's see if that works" fix.
ramsy
NoFixNoPay Electric
- Location
- LA basin, CA
- Occupation
- Service Electrician 2020 NEC
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Load calculations is a different issue. The four bedrooms might be total 600 square feet - which per NEC would be 1800 VA and could be handled on one 15 amp circuit. And unless you have portable heaters or window AC's used probably is going to have little issues in most cases.
Them box cover units are not listed branch circuit devices
Frank DuVal
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Engineer
I'm with Larry. I grew up in a 60 amp service house with Edison base plug fuses, all four of them. So, when the vacuum cleaner or kitchen appliance blew the 15 amp fuse, you were in the dark. Not going to happen to me or my customers again. I know, many more circuits in houses now, and 20 amp receptacle circuits are common, and "blowing fuses" or breakers is rare, but I build like I live there!:thumbsup:
RAKocher
Senior Member
- Location
- SE Pennsylvania
Working for companies I wired hundreds of homes in the 70’s, and except for the customs every house got the bare minimum. Back then it was even typical to put only one 15a GFCI breaker in the panel and have it supply every bathroom, outdoor, basement, sump pump receptacle in the house.
30 years ago I wired my own home and besides several 3 and 4 way sw’s, a lot of permanently installed lighting, ceiling light outlets in every rm, a 3rd SABC and not using stabs I didn’t do anything else beyond minimum and I don’t recall ever tripping a breaker.
So it’s surprising to me to hear about all of these above and beyond methods. Maybe it’s just a different economy, but I know one thing for sure, if I’m in my bedroom with the ceiling fan, lights and TV all on I could probably have my laptop and phone plugged in too and still not be using more than 2 amps and that’s only 17% of a 15 amp lighting circuit.
30 years ago I wired my own home and besides several 3 and 4 way sw’s, a lot of permanently installed lighting, ceiling light outlets in every rm, a 3rd SABC and not using stabs I didn’t do anything else beyond minimum and I don’t recall ever tripping a breaker.
So it’s surprising to me to hear about all of these above and beyond methods. Maybe it’s just a different economy, but I know one thing for sure, if I’m in my bedroom with the ceiling fan, lights and TV all on I could probably have my laptop and phone plugged in too and still not be using more than 2 amps and that’s only 17% of a 15 amp lighting circuit.
Frank DuVal
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Electrical Engineer
I see you do not iron clothes in your bedroom with the wife saying it is cold in here, plug in the 1800 watt heater......
Happens in my wife's sewing room [which is a bedroom] all the time, ceiling fan with lights on, portable lamps on, sewing machine running, iron plugged in, cycling and the toe kick heater cylcling also. Lucky, three different circuits.
Happens in my wife's sewing room [which is a bedroom] all the time, ceiling fan with lights on, portable lamps on, sewing machine running, iron plugged in, cycling and the toe kick heater cylcling also. Lucky, three different circuits.
electricguy61
Senior Member
Since AFCI’s became mandatory, and given the fairly common issue of nuisance tripping, we’ve wired a 15amp circuit to each smaller bedroom for lights and receptacles, and a 15amp for receptacles and another for lighting in master suites, using the lighting circuit for the bath lights as well. Very few call backs, and 99% of the time the issue is an occupant owned device that the AFCI doesn’t like.
RAKocher
Senior Member
- Location
- SE Pennsylvania
I see you do not iron clothes in your bedroom with the wife saying it is cold in here, plug in the 1800 watt heater......
Happens in my wife's sewing room [which is a bedroom] all the time, ceiling fan with lights on, portable lamps on, sewing machine running, iron plugged in, cycling and the toe kick heater cylcling also. Lucky, three different circuits.
In my case if I or my wife used a bedroom as a hobby area like that, I'd have to run a dedicated #12-3 to it! I probably would grumble a little bit about that 1800 watt furnace, but just a little bit.:hug:
RAKocher
Senior Member
- Location
- SE Pennsylvania
It is crazy that the AFCI is causing that much disturbance. I bet many are replacing them with regular breakers, similar to years ago when people would put pennies behind their plug fuses.
It may not ever be possible for the AFCI's algorithm to distinguish between a TV advertised vacuum cleaner, that can suck up a bowling ball, and still be an effective safety device, but if consumers can get a better understanding of it, maybe appliance manufacturers will eventually be pressured to arc fault certify their products.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Consumers still don't understand GFCI's. I don't expect all that many to ever understand either. Most just see it as that thing that trips and then things won't work but have no idea why. You can explain all you want, all they care about is to make it stop tripping.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
That is a good idea. I wonder if there is any testing done as part of the listing of the product.
growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
I was reading a comment just the other day where a homeowner was complaining of an AFCI tripping and he replaced with a regular breaker and the problem stopped so he gave himself a pat on the back for being so smart.
I don't think there are really as many problems with AFCI breakers as many people are led to believe. The problem with AFCI breakers is that when there is a problem it can be harder to find than when working with standard breakers. The reason I say this is I often see a whole panel of AFCI breakers and the owners have never had any problems. If the breakers were the problem they should be a problem for everyone and not just certain homes.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I mostly agree, problems typically will be in the wiring or even equipment that is not in proper working condition.
There still is occasional equipment that doesn't play well with AFCI's though.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
One would like to think that, but there are problems with them and a major part of the problem is the inconsistencies in their operation. It is a 100% fact that they nuisance trip and it is a 100% fact that manufactures knew about it.
- Status