Customer asked for a quote showing a 1-3000a fused disconnect with tap gutter to be located and feed near POCO transformer. The service will feed 4 buildings tapped from gutter to each building. The drawings show no wire or conduit schedule. The first thing that comes to mind is that the disconnect isnt going to have GFPE for disconnect and some of the buildings are 200' to 300' away from 3000a service. I believe they will need to add a 3000a switch board and each feeder for each building will need to have a its own breaker going to each building. I am not sure how to approach the problem because they want to bring service to one location then branch off to each building. The problem is that each build sits a distance away. I am just trying to figure out a better solution because if dont believe as is will work.They show the service equipment to be located near the transfomer out by the road LOL. I am sure there will be a revised drawing needed because based on drawings load analysis/one line the POCO wont even meet with them to discuss the new service.
3000a disconnect as service disconnect
- Thread starter mannyb
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- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Since the 3000A fused disconnect will not be the main service disconnecting means for any of the buildings, it does not require GFPE. See 240.13.
The distance to each building is not relevant. The "outside taps of unlimited length" rule in 240.21(B)(5) comes into play. As long as the main breaker for each building is rated no higher than the ampacity of the feeder to that building, and meets the other requirements of this article, all will be compliant.
The distance to each building is not relevant. The "outside taps of unlimited length" rule in 240.21(B)(5) comes into play. As long as the main breaker for each building is rated no higher than the ampacity of the feeder to that building, and meets the other requirements of this article, all will be compliant.
the service will be 277/480v I was wondering about voltage drop. all the buildings will be a distance away from service. I havent been involved with to many services like this. They are really trying to save money on this project.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
The fact they haven't provided you with an engineering guidance is proof of that.
I would discuss that with you inspection authority. I'm not necessarily in disagreement with charlie b but I can see where an inspector might consider the main in the detached building a "structure main" and require GF protection
240.13....... for each individual device used as a building or structure main disconnecting means rated 1000 amps or more
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Possibly. But my reading of the original post was that the fused disconnect was outdoors, close to the utility transformer, and not near any building.
I was going by the assumption they didnt make a 3000a disconnect and I would need to get a 3000a switchboard that would feed all the buildings. I didnt think about it sitting away from building. This is why I thought it needed the gfpe because equipment was over 1000a
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
- Occupation
- Electrician
So how are you getting around the GFPE requirement in 230.95? I am not seeing any wording about where or what the service connect is doing. A service disconnect is a service disconnect irregardless (not a word) of it being a service disconnect "for a building".
- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
It doesn't matter whether the disconnect is a service disconnect, a feeder disconnect, or a branch circuit disconnect, GFPE is required.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
I am now confused about the relationship between 240.13 and 230.95. I based my opinion shown in post #2 on 240.13. That article imposes the GFPE requirement only on a building's main disconnecting means. If for example you have a 3000 amp disconnect near the service transformer, and it feeds 5 buildings at 800 amps each, then no GFPE would be needed anywhere.
But how does 230.95 impact that analysis? It talks about the service equipment. For the present discussion, that would be the 3000 amp fused disconnect. Would 230.95 require GFPE even though 240.13 does not?
But how does 230.95 impact that analysis? It talks about the service equipment. For the present discussion, that would be the 3000 amp fused disconnect. Would 230.95 require GFPE even though 240.13 does not?
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
- Occupation
- Electrician
I need to think on it a little more to understand what the purpose of 240.13 is. Note there are also GFPE requirements for branch circuits and feeders in 210.13 and 215.10 respectively, and as mentioned for services in 230.95. So.....What does 240.13 add to the party?
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