Eaton and Non-CTL Circuit Breakers

[infinity]

So I purchased one if these panels (BRP-20L-125) because I had a bunch of Eaton BR circuit breakers left over from a job and need to add a sub-panel in my garage. The label and the specifications state that this is a 20/40 panel, 20 slots and 40 circuits. When I opened it and looked at the bus it can only accept non-CTL tandem circuit breakers. How can a new panel be advertised as a 20/40 when you legally only install 20 full sized CB's?

 

[ActionDave]

It's been that way for a long time. And besides that the days of the half sized circuit breakers has been a no go since about 2014 when the second wave of AFCI requirements hit.

How many breakers do you need for a garage anyway? Lights, plugs, table saw, hot tub, welder and your done.

 

[LarryFine]

That is clearly a 20/20 bus, not a 20/40 bus.

 

[infinity]

Yeah I only need the 20 circuits but was surprised that the panel is clearly listed as 20 spaces 40 circuits. What changed in 2014?

 

[hillbilly1]

The rejection feature may now be in the mounting rail instead of the buss?

 

[infinity]

The rejection feature may now be in the mounting rail instead of the buss?

I tried a non-CTL CB and it fit so unless non-CTL breakers are permitted in this panel how can Eaton call this a 40 circuit panel?

 

[hillbilly1]

Square D had a rail type rejection system at one time with the QO series, so I thought maybe Eaton was doing the same thing. Strange!

 

[jimport]

This came up on another forum. The OP contacted Eaton and was advised to use non-ctl breakers. I think this would be in conflict with the instructions to only use in replacement usage.

 

[infinity]

This came up on another forum. The OP contacted Eaton and was advised to use non-ctl breakers. I think this would be in conflict with the instructions to only use in replacement usage.

Maybe something has changed but I was under the impression that non-CTL breakers could not legally be used in these panels.

 

[Little Bill]

If you use all non CTL it will be a 40 circuit. If you use all full size breakers it is a 20 circuit. I think when they changed the 40 circuit limit or the rules for a panel board, the non CTL are now allowed.

 

[LarryFine]

I think when they changed the 40 circuit limit or the rules for a panel board, the non CTL are now allowed.

I hope that means the prices will come down to the CTL level.

 

[texie]

I hope that means the prices will come down to the CTL level.

Good point.

 

[infinity]

I tried to find some evidence that non-CTL CB's were permitted in these panels but there isn't much out there. I did find this from North Carolina:

Eaton Tandem Circuit Breakers Marked “For Replacement Only”
The purpose of this memo is to inform Inspections Departments and Electrical Contractors of
the Office of State Fire Marshal’s acceptance of Eaton tandem breakers, also commonly
referred to as half-size breakers, in new installations.
The 2014 Underwriters Laboratories (UL) Marking and Application Guide for Molded Case
Circuit Breakers:
42. For Replacement Not CTL — The marking “For replacement use only not CTL assemblies”
appears on breakers that do not have means to prevent their installation in Class CTL
assemblies. These breakers are intended for replacement in older assemblies still in service,
which pre-dates the Class CTL requirements for circuit breakers and panelboards.
As stated in the UL procedure for Eaton concerning the BR Duplex: Class CTL - Types BA, BR,
BRH, HQP, QC, QPH, QPHW, QBH/QBHW, QCHW, QPD, BRD and QPQ, may be marked "CTL."
The UL 489 standard does not require this marking.
Eaton has made a formal request to UL for the removal of such marking. UL’s acceptance
concerning the formal removal of the marking is an administrative technicality and has no
engineering basis. Therefore, tandem circuit breakers marked “THIS BREAKER IS NON-CTL AND
IS FOR REPLACEMENT USE ONLY” shall be accepted in new installations until UL has formally
removed the marking.
Joseph Daniel Starling
Chief State Electrical Engineer & Inspector
Chief Electrical Code Consultant

 

[kwired]

Is it possible the wrong label was placed on the package or that at some point wrong product was put in the package?

Wrong product in package could happen if someone returned an item and somehow had both items and put it in wrong package before returning it.

May not be as common of a thing on this particular product, I have bought other items at big box stores before and find that someone placed another item in the package and returned it. In particular I had a 3 pack of Legrand GFCI's one time, opened it up when ready to install and inside were three of whatever economy brand that store happened to sell in the package. My guess someone returned them and got refund of the higher price and store clerk didn't know any better what was supposed to be in the package.

 

[infinity]

Is it possible the wrong label was placed on the package or that at some point wrong product was put in the package?

Wrong product in package could happen if someone returned an item and somehow had both items and put it in wrong package before returning it.

May not be as common of a thing on this particular product, I have bought other items at big box stores before and find that someone placed another item in the package and returned it. In particular I had a 3 pack of Legrand GFCI's one time, opened it up when ready to install and inside were three of whatever economy brand that store happened to sell in the package. My guess someone returned them and got refund of the higher price and store clerk didn't know any better what was supposed to be in the package.

The box was factory sealed and the label on the panel cover (which was screwed on) reflected what was on the box label. All of the labeling matches what's on the Box. I have reached out to Eaton for an answer I'll report back if they respond.

 

[kwired]

The box was factory sealed and the label on the panel cover (which was screwed on) reflected what was on the box label. All of the labeling matches what's on the Box. I have reached out to Eaton for an answer I'll report back if they respond.
View attachment 2551712
View attachment 2551713

Not familiar with Eaton practices. Square D uses same cover for more than one loadcenter and covers are only labeled with information that pertains to the cover itself. Square D cabinet sometimes will fit more than one interior and IIRC label attached to cabinet is somewhat generic based on what you might find in that cabinet, the actual interior assembly will have a catalog number label designating what assembly it is.

 

[Jraef]

...
How many breakers do you need for a garage anyway? Lights, plugs, table saw, hot tub, welder and your done.

I’ve been debating where to relocate my hot tub recently. Never thought of putting in the garage until now!
Seems like the sawdust might be a problem, but you would be protected from welder splatter (other than your head). Thanks for the idea...

 

[jimport]

Here is a link to the other forum.

New Panel w/ No Spaces for CTL Tandems? Help! - DoItYourself.com Community Forums

New Panel w/ No Spaces for CTL Tandems? Help! - Electrical - AC & DC

www.doityourself.com

 

[norcal]

Still call those panels "Zinsco II" and Eaton is not doing anything to change my mind either, but there always has to be the product at the bottom & Eaton BR is it.

 

[electrofelon]

Still call those panels "Zinsco II" and Eaton is not doing anything to change my mind either, but there always has to be the product at the bottom & Eaton BR is it.

This whole thing is definitely really odd. I mean what the heck are they thinking putting a product with that kind of ambiguity out there. I agree that BR panels are barely better than garbage. The cabinets are not painted, the bus assembly is super flimsy....Also BR might be the only single phase panel left that is available with only 10k AIC mains in 150-200 amp (didnt check GE, but SQ D and siemens are all 22k).