Sub - fed panel

[bernardmulherin1978]

I have a house that has a sub fed panel and the ground and neutrals are tied together, now the house was built in 1958,so more than likely when the sub fed panel was put in, separating the ground and neutrals was not a requirements, or maybe its totally wrong, how can I fix it, or should I fix it, I know the correct way to do it for your effective ground fault path, its to far to re pull it with the correct amount of wires, what are my options, could I put a ground bar in and come off that to a ground rod and that work. Thanks

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

 

[ActionDave]

Ground rod won't do anything to make it safe.

Is the sub panel in the same building or a separate structure?

 

[rjniles]

Can we assume that the sub is in a outbuilding? Prior code allowed a 3 wire feed to an outbuilding under certain conditions (I believe the provision was cancelled in NEC 2008). The ground was bonded to the neutral to provide a low resistance path to clear a fault. If you separate the neutral and grounds and install a ground rod, you create a hazard as the ground rod alone does not have a low enough resistance to clear a fault. You have 2 options: leave it as is or run a ground conductor back to the source panel.

Sent from my RCT6A03W13E using Tapatalk

 

[rjniles]

If my assumption of an out building is wrong, a 3 wire feed never was compliant. A ground rod is not required but the 4th wire is.

Sent from my RCT6A03W13E using Tapatalk

 

[bernardmulherin1978]

It is a shed, behind the house

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

 

[ActionDave]

It is a shed, behind the house

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

Unless there is a water pipe or a phone line between the house and the shed leave everything alone

 

[roger]

If my assumption of an out building is wrong, a 3 wire feed never was compliant.

Actually before 2008 a three wire feeder to an out building was legal and quite common, see the exception after 250.32(B).

A ground rod is not required but the 4th wire is.

A GES is required but it only connects to the EGC, see 250.32(A)

Roger

 

[rjniles]

Actually before 2008 a three wire feeder to an out building was legal and quite common, see the exception after 250.32(B). A GES is required but it only connects to the EGC, see 250.32(A)

Roger

I said if my assumption of an outbuilding was wrong, meaning if he has a sub in the same building as the source panel. Does not need ground rod and a 3 wire feed was never compliant.

Sent from my RCT6A03W13E using Tapatalk

 

[roger]

I said if my assumption of an outbuilding was wrong, meaning if he has a sub in the same building as the source panel. Does not need ground rod and a 3 wire feed was never compliant.

Sent from my RCT6A03W13E using Tapatalk

Ahh, I see that now, I missed your first post, you were correct. My appologies.

Roger

 

[Beaches EE]

To the OP, is the sub panel in the shed or in the main building? What load)s) in the shed are being supplied by this sub panel?

 

[wyreman]

If my assumption of an out building is wrong, a 3 wire feed never was compliant. A ground rod is not required but the 4th wire is.

Sent from my RCT6A03W13E using Tapatalk

I have seen many green tagged apartments with two wire romex subfed panels.
These were never compliant??
they sold the wire, i thought it was listed, oh well
I condemn them all the time

 

[wyreman]

and i agree, a rod doesn't do much, but it sure helps diagnose the open neutral!

 

[delongtrevor]

thanks guys for the advice!