AFCI with no GFPE

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Little Bill

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Tennessee NEC:2017
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Semi-Retired Electrician
I finally got to prove to myself whether a newer AFCI had any GFI components in it or not. In particular an Eaton/Cutler-Hammer. I wired a small cabin that someone had started and left. I ran all new conductors except where they had tongue-n-groove wall and ceiling, and all that was in it was switch legs. I put in a dual function AFCI/GFCI on most circuits to keep from having to add GFCI receptacles. On one circuit the DF breaker wouldn't set. I traced the circuit down and confirmed it was a neutral to EGC fault. I narrowed it down to between a switch and light. Of course it was in an area that had the T&G ceiling and wall. I couldn't abandon the switch leg and light as it was the first in line of two lights. Before I was going to ask the customer to take out the T&G material, I thought I would try something.

Since it was only a neutral to EGC fault I decided to try just a stand alone AFCI. I put it in and it held. The circuit had two outdoor receptacles so I just installed GFCI receptacles for them. So it seems that at least GE and Eaton have removed the GFPE from their AFCI. That's the only plus that I can find with AFCIs!
 
I know GE got rid of the gfpe years ago. I seem to remember Don saying that siemens did also. I have not confirmed that
 
Eaton BR have not had GF protection for a few years. The CH line still did last I checked.

Siemens new plug-on neutral AFCI's don't have GF protection but I'm not sure if they also removed it from the wire type neutral.
 
I know GE got rid of the gfpe years ago. I seem to remember Don saying that siemens did also. I have not confirmed that

Siemens does not. I recently investigated when another EC called me asking why their AFCI’s don’t have a neutral connection on the breaker.


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Siemens does not. I recently investigated when another EC called me asking why their AFCI’s don’t have a neutral connection on the breaker.


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Doesn't the afci as well as the gfci have neutrals thru the breaker? If there isn't one on the afci it's because it is getting it thru the special siemens panel where there is a neutral buss for the breaker to connect to without wires.
 
The Siemens breaker connects to the neutral buss the same way SquareD HOM/QO do. The AFCI breakers do NOT have a load neutral connection. The load neutral wire connects directly to the neutral buss. The Dual Function breakers DO have a load neutral screw and obviousl require the load neutral wire be connected to the breaker.
 
Doesn't the afci as well as the gfci have neutrals thru the breaker? If there isn't one on the afci it's because it is getting it thru the special siemens panel where there is a neutral buss for the breaker to connect to without wires.

Yeh meant the load neutral. The breaker connects to the neutral rail underneath the breaker.


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