Non-UL PVC conduit and thoughts on backfills?

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Fred B said:
If sleeving you are doing so for protection from damage. UF cable code part II Installation 340.10(1) references underground requirements per 300.5.
300.5(D)(1-4)where (4) is option to use PVC one would reference 352.2 and 352.6 that states:
"352.6 Listing Requirements. PVC conduit, factory elbows, and associated fittings shall be listed." (Italics mine)
This would preclude use of plumbing type PVC even for sleeving of UF.
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Nowhere in the code does it require that sleeving material be listed.
 
petersonra said:
Nowhere in the code does it require that sleeving material be listed.
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What is your definition of a "sleeve"? I find no where in the code does it use the term "sleeve". So if it doesn't use a terminology that you or I are using, does it makes an installation adequate? What constitutes a "sleeve" that makes it different than putting a peice of UF through a section of PVC? How long does of a peice of PVC need to be to change from being a "sleeve" to being run through a section of conduit, 4 inches, 1ft, 3ft, 10ft, 50ft?
What reference IS used in NEC to in relationship to electrical wireing methods and type of "PVC"? Is there an exemptions made related to length of "conduit" that would change that requirement? I believe references in post 20 addresses last 2 questions.
It maybe common to see plumbing PVC to pass through a concrete wall but does it strictly meet requirement of NEC for direct placement of an electrical wireing method? It is common to find splices or J boxes buried in a wall does that make it compliant?
But this line diverges from OP so for that I am sorry.
 
I have used that 4" HDOE sewer pipe for physical protection of type USE sometimes. You get into big conductors like for a long service run where you would need 3" or larger PVC, there is a huge cost savings. IIRC that stuff is like .82 per foot, less than half the cost of 3". At my house I also ran the water line in it with the electrical so I get both protected for the price of one. I have shale 18" down so I also like the idea of being able to blow warm air thru it if the pipe freezes.
 
menards.com prices just now (although only 10' lengths were in stock, they have 20' prices posted):

$12.45 - 2" cellular core white PVC plain end 20' + coupler
$15.71 - 2" solid core white PVC plain end 20' + coupler
$16.20 - 2" grey PVC conduit bell end 20'
$19.99 - 2" solid core white PVC bell end 20'

Cheers, Wayne
 
This is the way I see it. Code does not require if be run on conduit, although you can. So you can run it pretty much inside anything you want to, as long as it is protected.

Since conduit is not required you can use just about anything hollow.
 
wwhitney said:
menards.com prices just now (although only 10' lengths were in stock, they have 20' prices posted):

$12.45 - 2" cellular core white PVC plain end 20' + coupler
$15.71 - 2" solid core white PVC plain end 20' + coupler
$16.20 - 2" grey PVC conduit bell end 20'
$19.99 - 2" solid core white PVC bell end 20'

Cheers, Wayne
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So basically fiddy cents more for Electrical, BUT you have to buy a coupling for the white.
 
I mean.....I think I am having sticker shock over the entire market!!! First it was TP, then food items, then wood, now plastics wants a 'go' at a good excuse to raise prices! I realize some young guys will probably buy the BS that is being kicked out but listen, plastics use resin made with oil. Oil price will only increase if someone wants it to, and that is a fact. Oil use is declining and the USA has it is surplus.

Bottom line, markets have used the covid BS to screw people. I need of building materials right now, not just pipe, and it just blows my mind that people actually buy the bullsh*t.... The majority of plastics mfg is automated!

I just checked 7/16 OSB price today. It is over 3 TIMES what it should be and was only 8mo ago. This is how an economic decline is written. People get greedy and eventually, things reset. The reality is I will probably have to wait for realistic prices in the dead of winter. I have companies asking $50/14ft stick of 4" sewer pipe! NO!!!
 
fastline said:
I just checked 7/16 OSB price today. It is over 3 TIMES what it should be and was only 8mo ago.
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What?! You think wood just grows on trees?! o_O




Oh, wait. Never mind.
biggrin.gif
 
retirede said:
It also goes up in price dramatically when we have hurricanes. Especially sheet goods (plywood and OSB).
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Law of supply and "demand", my friend, in a "free" market place, "we'll" charge you as much as you (or next guy) will pay until you don't buy it then maybe cut back just enough to get you to buy it again. Costs to mfg have little to do with it, fair has little to do with it, and sometimes even threat by government over "price gouging" will have little effect. They'll charge as much as the billionaire corporations can (or want), scream all you want it won't matter, until it effects their bottom line nothing will change. (Even then very little) Look at gas, based on price of crude gas prices should have gotten down to 1970 prices in the 30 cent a gallon range or even well under a dollar. Did that happen, no, why, people still needed to drive to get to work, it stayed high until it effected the billionaire corporations executive's delivery of caviar with a surcharge over the price of gas, only then did it moderate a litlle.
Been all down hill since the demise of the "ma and pa" store that as I child could go and get a pocket full of candy for 10 cents or the popsicle for 5cent. The billionaire corporations pushed them out and it pushes us into a corner.
Our bottom line matters not, people will be looking for "shortcuts" to have it cheaper, regardless of code violation (or safety concerns), they will be doing DIY installation in violation of code, no inspections (because if you do it yourself and nobody gonna see it and you're only that will ever know) why pay to have it done right, "I just saved 50 cents a stick on PVC". And while we're at it why even put a splice in a box, just some wirenuts and tape then I dont have that "God awful" ugly cover in the middle of my wall (or ceiling).
I'm quitting, going on welfare, and get a "caddy" and sit back and complain that the Tbone I just got with my "foodies" was a little thin. Then see what happens to the price of ply and PVC (nothing!!!).
Sorry, venting, had a bad couple of weeks over the price skyrocketing of materials (if I can even get them) and customers screaming at me as if I had any control over it.
 
Gas can't get to $0.30 a gallon because there's more than $0.30 a gallon tax on it. And I think this is just the excise tax on gas. Some states like Illinois also charge sales tax on gas.

1280px-Fuel_taxes_in_the_united_states.png
 
petersonra said:
Gas can't get to $0.30 a gallon because there's more than $0.30 a gallon tax on it. And I think this is just the excise tax on gas. Some states like Illinois also charge sales tax on gas.

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Also seems like there has to be a "break even" price after the cost of extraction, refining, transport, etc. And I would guess that is over 30 cents per gallon.
 
Hv&Lv said:
Flowable fill

“controlled low strength material”
Basically a real low strength(1200) concrete with no larger aggregate. And wet so it’s basically self leveling..
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We call It CDF--Controlled Density Fill
 
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