Where the NEC ends

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SceneryDriver

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Electrical and Automation Designer
People on this forum always say "The NEC stops at the receptacle." Where is that statement formally found? I've looked through my 2020 codebook, but nothing jumped out. A friend needs something formal to fend off an overzealous electrical inspector who wants to have something to say about some cord-and-plug connected equipment, and is holding up a COI because of it. Before anyone asks, this is not a case of "should've been hardwired, but someone put a cord cap on it."


Thanks,

SceneryDriver
 
If the equipment is a listed product and you change the listing by installing a cord cap then the inspector is correct in calling it.
 
It's LED lighting on a TV studio set. Inspector is claiming everything has to be in conduit because the power supplies for the dimmers are not Class 2. My take is that the scenery is temporary, and the dimmers are cord-and-plug connected. It may be a fire marshal issue, but the NEC should not apply. And no, there are no UL-listed dimming solutions for Entertainment (Class 2 or not).



ScenreyDriver
 
Can you explain your installation a little more? Is the dimming DMX dimming? Where are the drivers for the LED's. Where is the wiring installed as class 2 but he is saying it has to be class 1?
 
Darn, read the title and thought Shel Silverstein had a sequel to ' where the sidewalk ends'😁

Or

Someone FINALLY invented a time machine and found out in a few years the NFPA disbands and governments adopt a standard more based in science and statistics, formed without manufacturer input. 😞
 
SceneryDriver said:
People on this forum always say "The NEC stops at the receptacle." Where is that statement formally found? I've looked through my 2020 codebook, but nothing jumped out. A friend needs something formal to fend off an overzealous electrical inspector who wants to have something to say about some cord-and-plug connected equipment, and is holding up a COI because of it. Before anyone asks, this is not a case of "should've been hardwired, but someone put a cord cap on it."


Thanks,

SceneryDriver
Click to expand...
if it is cord and plug connected why not just unplug it. Then it is not even connected to the electrical system. How could it possibly be an issue for the inspector.
 
SceneryDriver said:
..It may be a fire marshal issue, but the NEC should not apply. And no, there are no UL-listed dimming solutions for Entertainment (Class 2 or not).
Click to expand...
Combination inspectors in my state are responsible for several code standards, and will red tag for missing smokes, CO, or HVAC register output, among other things.

Disneyland, and other amusement parks in my area have permits for temporary festoon lighting. Lights come down every 90 days, are inspected, and put back up the next day.

Inspectors can't argue with permits authorized by their own planning department.
 
ramsy said:
Combination inspectors in my state are responsible for several code standards, and will red tag for missing smokes, CO, or HVAC register output, among other things.

Disneyland, and other amusement parks in my area have permits for temporary festoon lighting. Lights come down every 90 days, are inspected, and put back up the next day.

Inspectors can't argue with permits authorized by their own planning department.
Click to expand...

I don't have a dog in this fight, and it may very well be a combo Electrical / Fire inspector. I'm telling them to just unplug the power supplies, adn then the inspector can't say boo.

I know well the silliness that comes from working for The Mouse - they require a permit and a licensed electrician to plug or unplug anything larger than a 15A 120V circuit. I really don't know how they get anything done.


SceneryDriver
 
Strathead said:
Can you explain your installation a little more? Is the dimming DMX dimming? Where are the drivers for the LED's. Where is the wiring installed as class 2 but he is saying it has to be class 1?
Click to expand...

It is DMX dimming. Cord-and-Plug power supply --> DMX Dimmer --> LED tape. All low voltage is installed with Class 2 rules. He's saying that because the power supplies aren't Class 2, everything has to be in conduit.

Everything in question is installed in scenery, not considered part of the permanent structure of the building.


SceneryDriver
 
SceneryDriver said:
It is DMX dimming. Cord-and-Plug power supply --> DMX Dimmer --> LED tape. All low voltage is installed with Class 2 rules. He's saying that because the power supplies aren't Class 2, everything has to be in conduit.
Click to expand...

I agree with him. It can't be a class 2 circuit unless the power supplies are class 2. Article 725 says so.

Class 2 Circuit. The portion of the wiring system between the
load side of a Class 2 power source and the connected equipment.
Due to its power limitations, a Class 2 circuit considers
safety from a fire initiation standpoint and provides acceptable
protection from electric shock.
Click to expand...

725.121 Power Sources for Class 2 and Class 3 Circuits.
(A) Power Source. The power source for a Class 2 or a Class 3
circuit shall be as specified in 725.121(A)(1), (A)(2), (A)(3),
(A)(4), or (A)(5):
Informational Note No. 1: Informational Note Figure 725.121,
No. 1 illustrates the relationships between Class 2 or Class 3
power sources, their supply, and the Class 2 or Class 3 circuits.
Informational Note No. 2: Table 11(A) and Table 11(B) in
Chapter 9 provide the requirements for listed Class 2 and
Class 3 power sources.
(1) A listed Class 2 or Class 3 transformer
(2) A listed Class 2 or Class 3 power supply
(3) Other listed equipment marked to identify the Class 2 or
Class 3 power source
Click to expand...

There is an important exception #2 for (3) that you should read.
 
The power supply is only part of the equation - Is the class 2 wiring permanent to the structure? If so the driver shall comply with code. If your plug & play is driver, wiring & lighting in an appliance then it is not in the NEC but the appliance should be listed under a NRTL
 
Also see:

406.15 Dimmer-Controlled Receptacles.
A receptacle supplying lighting loads shall not be
connected to a dimmer unless the plug/receptacle
combination is a nonstandard configuration type
that is specifically listed and identified for each
such unique combination.
 
LarryFine said:
Also see:

406.15 Dimmer-Controlled Receptacles.
A receptacle supplying lighting loads shall not be
connected to a dimmer unless the plug/receptacle
combination is a nonstandard configuration type
that is specifically listed and identified for each
such unique combination.
Click to expand...

What code are you getting that from... 2017 and 2020 don't have a 406.15-- that was the section I was looking for.
 
(not sure how much this helps, but....)
Art 406.15? Maybe not.

Art 520 (THEATERS, MOTION PICTURE & TELEVISION STUDIOS, & SIMILAR LOCATIONS)? Yes.
More specifically part IV (portable switchboards on stage; applies to dimmers).
And possibly 520.63, but that might be a stretch.

Art 530 (MOTION PICTURE AND TELEVISION STUDIOS AND SIMILAR LOCATIONS)
530.12 Portable Wiring
(A) Stage Set Wiring. The wiring for stage set lighting and other supply wiring not fixed as to location shall be done with listed hard usage flexible cords and cables. Where subject to physical damage, such wiring shall be listed extra-hard usage flexible cords and cables. Splices or taps in cables shall be permitted if the total connected load does not exceed the maximum ampacity of the cable.
Click to expand...


Why those are separate articles? Who knows.
 
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