Accurately Identify un grouped circuits originating from same raceway?

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Goatprod

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Hello all,

I’m trying to collect a few different methods of accurately grouping circuits that originate from the same raceway.

It would seem prior to 2008 there wasn’t any code governing multi-wire branch circuits being landed on a breaker with a shared handle tie, nor grouping said “boat.”

How could you accurately identify the corresponding grounded conductor that goes with the two ungrounded conductors?

How could you accurately identify single pole branch circuits?


Aside from going through the house attempting to find the ends of home runs and performing a continuity test of each leg, is there a way to identify the pairs or triplets that should be grouped in the main or sub panel their OCPD is located at?

If this has been addressed elsewhere, it would be greatly appreciated to have the link provided.
 
You can try connecting a heavy load on the circuit and then see which neutral has a change in current, same for the hot leg.
 
infinity said:
You can try connecting a heavy load on the circuit and then see which neutral has a change in current, same for the hot leg.
Click to expand...

I’m trying to avoid having to track down each outlet that corresponds to the breaker, as doing so would take an entire day of mapping out the house.

Ideally trying to do everything at the main/sub panel.

I’m also not convinced taking ohms readings would be accurate enough to pair a neutral with its corresponding hot/hots.
 
210624-2045 EDT

Goatprod:

I do not understand what you want to determine.

If you have Romex or some other kind of cable, then the associated wires are defined by the cable. This you should be able to visually see.

If somehow wiring was done incorrectly, then that is a different problem. For example the neutral or hot wire was derived from some other location rather than where you expect the source to be.

If you have individual wires in a conduit for a number of different circuits, then that requires a different approach.

What is the real problem you want to solve?

.
 
" accurately grouping circuits that originate from the same raceway. "

Good chance I am misunderstanding you. To me "same raceway" implies conduit/pipe. So I take off the panel cover, find every conduit that has 2 or 3 hots and one neutral, and move all of those circuits to 2/3 pole breakers. Done.

Now if I need to identity each phase/breaker at each outlet I'm going to have to turn stuff off and start measuring. IMHO better to do that before I move everything to 2/3 pole breakers.

If it is 12/3 w/g romex pretty much same procedure I reckon but I no experience with romex/nm.
 
Russs57 said:
" accurately grouping circuits that originate from the same raceway. "

Good chance I am misunderstanding you. To me "same raceway" implies conduit/pipe. So I take off the panel cover, find every conduit that has 2 or 3 hots and one neutral, and move all of those circuits to 2/3 pole breakers. Done.

Now if I need to identity each phase/breaker at each outlet I'm going to have to turn stuff off and start measuring. IMHO better to do that before I move everything to 2/3 pole breakers.

If it is 12/3 w/g romex pretty much same procedure I reckon but I no experience with romex/nm.
Click to expand...

Let’s say we have 14 ungrounded conductors and 8 grounded conductors all coming from a single conduit, 14 black wires and 8 white wires.

How would one be able to accurately group the neutral with the hot/hots?

The above scenario would have 6 multi-wire branch circuits and 2 single pole circuits.

Just trying to see if anyone out there has a way of accurately being able to take existing, un grouped circuits, and be able to group them
 
gar said:
210624-2045 EDT

Goatprod:

I do not understand what you want to determine.

If you have Romex or some other kind of cable, then the associated wires are defined by the cable. This you should be able to visually see.

If somehow wiring was done incorrectly, then that is a different problem. For example the neutral or hot wire was derived from some other location rather than where you expect the source to be.

If you have individual wires in a conduit for a number of different circuits, then that requires a different approach.

What is the real problem you want to solve?

.
Click to expand...
No issues at all with romex, as they are contained and grouped, extremely easy to identify.

Issue comes into play when there are multiple wires of the same color, that have been run sharing a neutral, and are not grouped at the point of termination.

Thats where I’m trying to see if anyone has a method of grouping a circuit and being able to properly identify the circuits appropriate neutral.
 
Make sure all circuits have a connected load. Disconnect all wires, both ungrounded and grounded, and you should be able to associate the ungrounded conductors with the correct grounded conductor with an ohm meter. This will only work if every circuit has connected line to neutral loads.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Make sure all circuits have a connected load. Disconnect all wires, both ungrounded and grounded, and you should be able to associate the ungrounded conductors with the correct grounded conductor with an ohm meter.
Click to expand...
You mean a clamp-on ammeter, if I'm not mistaken.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Make sure all circuits have a connected load. Disconnect all wires, both ungrounded and grounded, and you should be able to associate the ungrounded conductors with the correct grounded conductor with an ohm meter. This will only work if every circuit has connected line to neutral loads.
Click to expand...

With the end goal being the wires showing similar resistance being the associated circuit?

This will result in similar values often for all wires coming from the same raceway.

Thanks for your feedback!
 
210624-2351 EDT

Goatprod:

Let us assume all circuits have a connected load that is drawing at least about 5 A, meaning current is flowing on every circuit. And there are no incorrectly wired circuits.

Turn off one breaker. Now look for any wires carrying no current. This will provide your answer for that circuit. Then turn that breaker on , and turn a different one off. Continue this for all breakers.

Note: the neutral carries the same current as the hot wire. For two hot wires sharing a neutral all three of those wires will have no current flowing.
Any other two or three wire circuits that are powered and loaded will have current flowing in at least the two hot wires. In the case of a perfectly balanced load on a three wire circuit, you may need to unbalance one load to find its neutral, or disconnect one hot wire to force current on the neutral. If that circuit has no load connected to neutral, then you may need to use a somewhat different approach to find its neutral wire. I could explain an approach if needed..

.
 
Goatprod said:
With the end goal being the wires showing similar resistance being the associated circuit?

This will result in similar values often for all wires coming from the same raceway.

Thanks for your feedback!
Click to expand...
No...with all wires, both hots and neutrals, disconnected, you will only show continuity between the associated hots and neutrals. You will be reading from the hot, through the load, and back on the neutral. There will be no continuity between hots and neutrals that are not associated with each other. Again this only works if there is a connected load.
 
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