Small GFI Breaker

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RSquirrel

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Watsonville, CA, USA
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Mechanical Engineer (retired/consulting)
Does anyone know if such a device as this exists?

GFI breaker (preferably 5 or 10-amp, but could be 15-amp) that will fit into a standard single gang receptacle box (e.g. Carlon 1-gang Zip box)? My searches have yielded nothing . . .
 
ActionDave said:
You can't get a GFI breaker that fits in a device box, but you can get a dead front GFI device.
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Not to be... that guy.... but technically a dead front GFCI is a breaker, just not in the sense we normally think. But I think we all inherently knew that.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
 
DrSparks said:
Not to be... that guy.... but technically a dead front GFCI is a breaker, just not in the sense we normally think. But I think we all inherently knew that.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
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I've seen the dead fronts called a switch but never a breaker. It does not provide over load/short circuit protection that one would typically associate with a circuit breaker.
NEC definition of a circuit breaker is a device designed to open and close a circuit by non automatic means and to open a circuit automatically on a predetermined overcurrent without damage to itself when properly applied within its rating.
A dead front has no overcurrent protection.
 
RSquirrel said:
Does anyone know if such a device as this exists?

GFI breaker (preferably 5 or 10-amp, but could be 15-amp) that will fit into a standard single gang receptacle box (e.g. Carlon 1-gang Zip box)? My searches have yielded nothing . . .
Click to expand...

What's the application?
 
The application is to provide GFCI-protection to an exterior duplex receptacle that is housed in a locked 2-gang box (along with an Intermatic timer to restrict power availability to certain times and days). The receptacle is currently protected by a GFI receptacle inside a shed and there is also a push-to-reset 10-amp mini-breaker in a 1-gang box upstream from the 2-gang box. We want a person who has no access to the inside GFI to be able to reset a GFI trip, but replacing either the 1-gang box or the 2-gang box is not feasible. So this phantom device would replace the mini-breaker and the inside GFI function.
 
Can you just replace the duplex receptacle with a gfi receptacle and call it a day? Or is the idea to leave the receptacle cover locked but still be able to reset the gfci?

What is the purpose of the 10 amp breaker? To limit current that can be used by this outdoor receptacle? Is the breaker in the shed or is it outside?
 
To your first question, no - the replacement GFI receptacle would still be locked up. I need it to be resettable by a neighbor, from the (unlocked) 1-gang box. The 10-amp breaker ensures the it trips before the 15-amp upstream (the draw is ~ 6 amps for the neighbor RV's battery charger). The source breaker is some 200 feet away and not accessible by the neighbor. I have access, but want to be out of the loop for correcting an overload or GFI trip.
 
RSquirrel said:
To your first question, no - the replacement GFI receptacle would still be locked up. I need it to be resettable by a neighbor, from the (unlocked) 1-gang box. The 10-amp breaker ensures the it trips before the 15-amp upstream (the draw is ~ 6 amps for the neighbor RV's battery charger). The source breaker is some 200 feet away and not accessible by the neighbor. I have access, but want to be out of the loop for correcting an overload or GFI trip.
Click to expand...
I recommend talking to your POCO and see if they have a recommendation. :p
 
So can't you just wire the 1 gang and 2 gang boxes from the line side of the indoor GFCI, and replace the outdoor receptacle in the 2 gang box with a GFCI receptacle?

Cheers, Wayne
 
LarryFine said:
A common conclusion, but not necessarily so.
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I will second that. If you have short circuit it possibly trips both.

I'd have the GFCI accessible to user, but not worry about the branch breaker in this case.

Seen 15 and 20 amp circuits with a short circuit end up tripping an upstream feeder breaker a few times and even seen a short on 30 amp circuit trip upstream 200 amp breaker before.
 
Hate to say it, but this sounds like a DIY project to solve an awkward neighbor situation: OP wants to (feels obliged to) provide power for neighbor's RV charger, but wants to make sure that nothing else can get plugged in.

IMHO a solar battery maintainer is a better choice.

If you really want to provide for your neighbor's RV, then have an electrician install a power pedestal and figure out the legalities of metering it.

-Jon
 
Reply to #11: No, see my #8 response.

Reply to #12: On the off-chance that both the 10-amp and the 15-amp trip, I can live with that. I do not expect that the small breaker will go first every time, just 99% (pick a number) of the time. If your "suggestion" were viable, I would, but again the neighbor has no shed access.
 
Sorry, I missed that you want the outdoor 2 gang locked. Why is that? If it's only to prevent access to the timer, put the timer in the single gang and lock it, put the GFCI receptacle and 10 amp OCPD in the double gang.

If it's also to prevent other loads from being supplied from the receptacle, then you're out of lock. There doesn't seem to be a commercially available solution for GFCI protection and 10 amp OCPD in a single yoke device. You'd have to add another outdoor enclosure next to or over the single gang to accommodate two separate devices.

Cheers, Wayne
 
DrSparks said:
Not to be... that guy.... but technically a dead front GFCI is a breaker, just not in the sense we normally think. But I think we all inherently knew that.

Sent from my SM-A326U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Not really. A "Circuit Breaker" implies over current protection. A dead front GFCI is not going to trip on over current, only GF.
 
Nobody makes a free-mounted GFCI breaker, there is no need for it (other than your one-off situation).
To me the GFCI problem is easy to solve with a GFCI outlet, the issue you are challenged with is if the breaker trips. Since the circuit is no doubt protected by a real circuit breaker up stream, this 10A device is what we would call "supplemental" protection. Since that has no legal / code requirement, you could instead use a "Current Sensing Relay" inside of the shed set to 10A (or 6A or whatever) and then wire in a Reset button for it to the outside somewhere. it might not trip as fast as the upstream breaker if there is a short circuit event, but if that event is a short to ground, and anything on a 120V circuit would be, then the GFCI will pick it up most of the time. The CSR though would pick up an overload condition way before the breaker would see it.

As an example, you could get the "Latching" version of this
When it trips, it stays tripped until power to the relay is cut. So your external reset would just be a NC push button on the outside somewhere that drops out control power to this relay.
 
There is no reason that the device the OP was asking for couldn't exist.

GFCI circuit breakers with a suitable mounting base would _almost_ fit in a single gang box. Almost, but not quite.

And good luck getting a GFCI breaker with a 5 or 10A overcurrent trip level to 'coordinate' with the upstream breaker.

But now that I know that breaker mounting bases are available, I'm imagining that being able to throw a standard circuit breaker into a box could be useful here or there.

-Jon
 
winnie said:
There is no reason that the device the OP was asking for couldn't exist.

GFCI circuit breakers with a suitable mounting base would _almost_ fit in a single gang box. Almost, but not quite.

And good luck getting a GFCI breaker with a 5 or 10A overcurrent trip level to 'coordinate' with the upstream breaker.

But now that I know that breaker mounting bases are available, I'm imagining that being able to throw a standard circuit breaker into a box could be useful here or there.

-Jon
Click to expand...
The only thing that comes remotely close is a DIN Rail mount but would require a NEMA 3 box or enclosure to mount it in. They have them, and have used them to mount the gfi and control units for a fountain. I've seen them listed in the lower amperages but not sure of the fault rating if it is listed for personnel protection or equipment. Some likely will fit in a 4x6 box.
 
I want to thank each of you that has attempted a solution to my problem (even the ones that wanted to circumvent the restrictions in my original post). I was ready give up until I re-read post #15 " . . . put the timer in the single gang and lock it, put the GFCI receptacle and 10 amp OCPD in the double gang." such a simple/elegant solution - thanks, Wayne, for thinking outside the box (pun intended). I don't know why I didn't think of that.

Consider my issue resolved (is there another place on the forum where I can accept a solution? - I will look but don't recall seeing one).
 
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