Are these legal behind a wall? Non-accessible

[Dsg319]

Don’t have my 2017 handy on me right now, but from what I gather from the web, they seem to be permitted in remodel fished in applications.

Can someone shoot me in the right direction to find the article in the NEC.

Back story- Fire place guys took a saw through a couple branch circuits in a living room wall.

 

[roger]

Look at how it's listed and 110.3(B)

Roger

 

[sparky1118]

Yes they are rated to be concealed behind walls


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[hillbilly1]

I used one once, wasn’t real impressed with mobile home type insulation piercing. Probably wouldn’t use it if the circuit has a heavy load.

 

[Fred B]

Hillbilly1 is correct in that they are not listed to any heavy loads and are only rated for 300V not the typical 600V of most other wiring devices. Not sure though about the piercing connection the only one I had my hands on you strip the conductors similar to the wago connectors. There was one I saw for making a tap connection (tee shaped) that did have a piercing connection.
Inspectors around here have prohibited use of the TYCO on new construction, limiting it to repair work in already closed walls. Guys were trying to just throw these in on totally new runs where the cable they had was too short to reach the next box.

 

[MattG0311]

I have a 2 story prefab house built in 92. My attic has a big pile of these at the entry way where they spliced the box sections together. I haven’t had any problems but I do check them time to time to see if there’s any thermal damage.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have a 2 story prefab house built in 92. My attic has a big pile of these at the entry way where they spliced the box sections together. I haven’t had any problems but I do check them time to time to see if there’s any thermal damage.

Prefabs often come in 2 sections so they leave these connectors labelled so you can connect them up when the units get installed. This is how they tie the electrical together. Generally the service is on the side with the heavy loads and just lighting and receptacles get spliced together this way.

 

[Fred B]

Prefabs often come in 2 sections so they leave these connectors labelled so you can connect them up when the units get installed. This is how they tie the electrical together. Generally the service is on the side with the heavy loads and just lighting and receptacles get spliced together this way.

Not sure how well labeled they are. Found plenty of doubles and modulars that for example half the living room and the bedroom on the opposite side 2 doors down are on the same circuit, found a kitchen that had a bath on opposite side that went out when you shut off the kitchen. (Not sure if the marking at fault or simply the installation crew can't read.)

 

[hillbilly1]

Hillbilly1 is correct in that they are not listed to any heavy loads and are only rated for 300V not the typical 600V of most other wiring devices. Not sure though about the piercing connection the only one I had my hands on you strip the conductors similar to the wago connectors. There was one I saw for making a tap connection (tee shaped) that did have a piercing connection.
Inspectors around here have prohibited use of the TYCO on new construction, limiting it to repair work in already closed walls. Guys were trying to just throw these in on totally new runs where the cable they had was too short to reach the next box.

This was probably 20 years ago, and they probably changed the design. This was
On an outbuilding that the carpenters somehow managed to cut one of the wires with a circular saw, I think they were cutting in a window.

 

[packersparky]

They can be concealed for repairs of existing circuits only. NEC 334.40(B)

 

[hbiss]

I would feel alot better with a box, connectors and wire nuts done properly and concealed than that garbage. A splice is a splice. Why is that allowed and not what I just said?

-Hal

 

[Hv&Lv]

Prefabs often come in 2 sections so they leave these connectors labelled so you can connect them up when the units get installed. This is how they tie the electrical together. Generally the service is on the side with the heavy loads and just lighting and receptacles get spliced together this way.

Yeah, prefabs, double wides…
I don't remember how many of this plug splices I’ve replaced over the years that burn out.

 

[frofro19]

I would feel alot better with a box, connectors and wire nuts done properly and concealed than that garbage. A splice is a splice. Why is that allowed and not what I just said?

-Hal

Agreed!

 

[frofro19]

I would feel alot better with a box, connectors and wire nuts done properly and concealed than that garbage. A splice is a splice. Why is that allowed and not what I just said?

-Hal

Had an inspector not allow a box with 3 wires, a hot, neutral and a ground, to be concealed once. No junction, just 3 individual wires with individual wire nuts. Told him, what could possibly go wrong since there's no junction but still had to make it accessible.

 

[Eddie702]

Had an inspector not allow a box with 3 wires, a hot, neutral and a ground, to be concealed once. No junction, just 3 individual wires with individual wire nuts. Told him, what could possibly go wrong since there's no junction but still had to make it accessible.

IMHO the inspector was right. Your not supposed to conceal a box with live wire splice or no splice

 

[frofro19]

IMHO the inspector was right. Your not supposed to conceal a box with live wire splice or no splice

What could possibly go wrong? What's the difference of a live wire in a wall feeding something 10 feet away in another room? And if my memory is correct, there wasn't any power on that wire at the time but we couldn't tell where it was coming from.

 

[electrofelon]

I would feel alot better with a box, connectors and wire nuts done properly and concealed than that garbage. A splice is a splice. Why is that allowed and not what I just said?

-Hal

A-men. If someone isn't confident enough in their splices to bury them in a wall, perhaps they shouldn't be an electrician . I don't have any problem covering over a box if it needs to happen, and I would do it over using that Tyco garbage any day.

 

[Dsg319]

Thanks all, and after reading the comments and all, I will not be going that route. Luckily why I was gone my dad was able to get a little more “slack” in the cables to where I can at least get them in the box.

Which opens up another can of worms. 6” of free conductor….. Wether that be spliced or un-spliced to achieve that 6” from what I see the NEC does not tell us.

But today it’s telling me spliced.

 

[Rick 0920]

Thanks all, and after reading the comments and all, I will not be going that route. Luckily why I was gone my dad was able to get a little more “slack” in the cables to where I can at least get them in the box.

Which opens up another can of worms. 6” of free conductor….. Wether that be spliced or un-spliced to achieve that 6” from what I see the NEC does not tell us.

But today it’s telling me spliced.

The way I interpret NEC 300.14 is:
(1) If the wiring method is NM cable, at least 6" of free conductor, measured from the point where it exits the sheath, shall be left at boxes before any splices or terminations. At least 1/4" inch of the sheath needs to be inside the box. If you leave more than that, you still measure from where the conductor emerges from the sheath.
(2) If the wiring method is raceway, the conductor is measured from the point in which it emerges from the raceway.
(3) If any of the boxes or conduit bodies measure less than 8" in ANY direction, the conductors need to be long enough to extend at least 3" from the front edge of the box or conduit body.

 

[ActionDave]

The way I interpret NEC 300.14 is:
(1) If the wiring method is NM cable, at least 6" of free conductor, measured from the point where it exits the sheath, shall be left at boxes before any splices......

I don't see anything in the code language to support that.