Practicable means to acheive 230.53 compliance

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Fred B

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Location
Upstate, NY
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Electrician
What methods have others used to get compliance with 230.53 (2017 NEC)? I would assume if you are getting water running out of a meter enclosure that is underground fed there is a problem with that compliance. Got a call to check on such a circumstance of water running out of meter enclosure. Not my installation, but looking to make corrections.
 
How much water is coming out of the meter enclosure? A 1/4" hole may remedy the problem or, if it is a lot of water, you may need an underground pull box before the service riser turns upward. Some installations have the surface water directed to the utility box uphill from the meter and no amount of holes will fix it.
 
We generally make a couple of saw kerfs on the backside of the riser above ground level.
It’s completely unnoticeable unless your standing in the rain watching the water run out of it.

Getting very technical though it’s doubtful you will ever comply with this.
Will the conduit EVER drain underground with a 90 on each end?
We just try to keep it out of the enclosure.
 
If the meter is fed underground and it is in conduit then it is possible that the conduit is sloping into the building and water can rise up into the meter.
 
If the meter is fed underground and it is in conduit then it is possible that the conduit is sloping into the building and water can rise up into the meter.
It can be sloping away from the meter and still have that problem if it’s all in conduit all the way to the top of the pole…
Even a level installation will have about a 15’ elevation difference between conduit openings
 
If the meter is fed underground and it is in conduit then it is possible that the conduit is sloping into the building and water can rise up into the meter.
That's the case. Base of pole from POCO is about 5ft elevation above meter at house. Using the KO point opened a crack in the concentric ring to allow water to escape. Looking for a better more perminant solution to keep water from getting up to the meter. Thinking tieing into a new french drain system when it is installed by making gravel pit at conduit where it turns up the wall and provide weep holes in conduit. The french drain will go down across property to the drainage ditch about 10ft below basement grade.
 
Depending on how much water is flowing, just the use of a slip riser should offer enough gap between it and the riser conduit to allow water to flow out of it before it makes it up to the meter base
 
Was this installed by the power company? If so let them know about it. You could use some sealing foam in the conduit but that would just let the water stay in the pipe.
Ideally you could put a quazite hand hole below the meter and then run a pipe out to wherever you need. Lots of work
 
Depending on how much water is flowing, just the use of a slip riser should offer enough gap between it and the riser conduit to allow water to flow out of it before it makes it up to the meter base
We have started using these for the last 2-3 years. They are fantastic for that purpose and also to stop the pipe from pulling down on the Meterbase and pulling it off the side of the house for installations that are all in conduit.
 
Depending on how much water is flowing, just the use of a slip riser should offer enough gap between it and the riser conduit to allow water to flow out of it before it makes it up to the meter base
We have started using these for the last 2-3 years. They are fantastic for that purpose and also to stop the pipe from pulling down on the Meterbase and pulling it off the side of the house for installations that are all in conduit.
I have almost universally used expansion couplings for underground. I usually use the slip riser type or make my own out of 2.5" PVC. As stated, those are nice because they let water out.

Just a week ago, I got a picture from the owner of a house I did. This was a primary underground service I did ( this utility allows electricians to run the primary to the pole, they do the makeup on both ends). 2 runs of CN neutral (Delta system) in 2" PVC 10 feet up the pole, POCO takes it up from there with U guard. Anyway, pole is downhill from the house, pipes filled with water and froze so now the PVC is all cracked. I'll probably just put U guard over the whole mess. It's either that or get Poco to disconnect the primaries and redo with some weep holes in the 90's at the base of the pole and hope it drains....
 
I've seen the slip riser but never seen one at supply house so I thought the riser was a homemade product. Only ones I've had and is on this installation is an expansion coupling but it has an o-ring in them so it is not letting water out. Ideally would be have a way to keep water from rising up to that level. Like fellon said happened, I would worry about it freezing a breaking the pipe.
 
I've seen the slip riser but never seen one at supply house so I thought the riser was a homemade product. Only ones I've had and is on this installation is an expansion coupling but it has an o-ring in them so it is not letting water out. Ideally would be have a way to keep water from rising up to that level. Like fellon said happened, I would worry about it freezing a breaking the pipe.
I have heard of people taking the o rings out of the coupling type.
 
I've seen the slip riser but never seen one at supply house so I thought the riser was a homemade product. Only ones I've had and is on this installation is an expansion coupling but it has an o-ring in them so it is not letting water out. Ideally would be have a way to keep water from rising up to that level. Like fellon said happened, I would worry about it freezing a breaking the pipe.
Just have your supplier get them
 
I have almost universally used expansion couplings for underground. I usually use the slip riser type or make my own out of 2.5" PVC. As stated, those are nice because they let water out.

Just a week ago, I got a picture from the owner of a house I did. This was a primary underground service I did ( this utility allows electricians to run the primary to the pole, they do the makeup on both ends). 2 runs of CN neutral (Delta system) in 2" PVC 10 feet up the pole, POCO takes it up from there with U guard. Anyway, pole is downhill from the house, pipes filled with water and froze so now the PVC is all cracked. I'll probably just put U guard over the whole mess. It's either that or get Poco to disconnect the primaries and redo with some weep holes in the 90's at the base of the pole and hope it drains....
Occasionally we will put something like this at the base of the pole to cover where we leave the 2” or 3” pvc with a 1” gap between them for drainage.
 
Why so much water? if improper or no weatherhead on the utility end I can see it allowing somewhat large amount of water in , otherwise it should be condensation water, though that can accumulate over time but it won't be that much in just one warm-cool cycle.

You are doing too good of a job gluing PVC raceways if it holds water well, electrical PVC pipe isn't made to seal as well as plumbing PVC pipe is. ;)
 
Why so much water? if improper or no weatherhead on the utility end I can see it allowing somewhat large amount of water in , otherwise it should be condensation water, though that can accumulate over time but it won't be that much in just one warm-cool cycle.

You are doing too good of a job gluing PVC raceways if it holds water well, electrical PVC pipe isn't made to seal as well as plumbing PVC pipe is. ;)
Utilities use weather heads??
How about inside secondary vaults?
 
Why so much water? if improper or no weatherhead on the utility end I can see it allowing somewhat large amount of water in , otherwise it should be condensation water, though that can accumulate over time but it won't be that much in just one warm-cool cycle.

You are doing too good of a job gluing PVC raceways if it holds water well, electrical PVC pipe isn't made to seal as well as plumbing PVC pipe is. ;)
I advocate gluing carefully in some situations, like where the run is downhill into a basement, because if you have a high water table and an imperfect joint in the pipe you will have a continuous stream of water coming through into the basement. Been there. I think electrical PVC glues and seals. just fine, it's just we often aren't real careful because often we don't have to be
 
I advocate gluing carefully in some situations, like where the run is downhill into a basement, because if you have a high water table and an imperfect joint in the pipe you will have a continuous stream of water coming through into the basement. Been there. I think electrical PVC glues and seals. just fine, it's just we often aren't real careful because often we don't have to be
It often does seal pretty well, some bell ends will fit a little loose at times though.

They won't necessarily hold pressure like plumbing PVC joints, but then we don't normally use cleaner, primer, or heavy body cement to make as good of a joint either.
 
I advocate gluing carefully in some situations, like where the run is downhill into a basement, because if you have a high water table and an imperfect joint in the pipe you will have a continuous stream of water coming through into the basement. Been there. I think electrical PVC glues and seals. just fine, it's just we often aren't real careful because often we don't have to be
Most high water table locations around here you do not want to have a basement, or if you do you better at least have a really good drainage/pumping system to keep water away from the walls.

I've been around places where you can't dig a trench without placing whatever you are burying right behind the excavation process as you go, you only have minutes at the most and it fills in by itself with "quicksand" in the deeper portions of your trench.
 
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