Under-gauge wire?

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tallgirl

tallgirl

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I've seen it from time to time in the past - a #12 which seemed closer to a #13, in that it was clearly not the proper diameter, but also not just a #14. Lately I seem to be seeing it more.

Some questions.

Am I on crack? Is this just manufacturing tolerance and I'm just paranoid because I've read too many news reports about counterfeit products?

Do some manufacturers run towards the smaller end of a hypothetical tolerance because they have tighter controls, so they can get away with it?
 
I had priority wire and cable send me AL THHN that was supposed to be and labeled 350 MCM but was actually 250. I assume it was an honest mistake but they wouldn't give me credit for the price difference. Already installed it and just wanted the $350 price difference. Unbelievable. What a horrible company.
 
electrofelon said:
I had priority wire and cable send me AL THHN that was supposed to be and labeled 350 MCM but was actually 250. I assume it was an honest mistake but they wouldn't give me credit for the price difference. Already installed it and just wanted the $350 price difference. Unbelievable. What a horrible company.
Click to expand...

They might still be living up to their name. It's just that their "priority" is higher profits and not their customers. :(
 
tallgirl said:
I've seen it from time to time in the past - a #12 which seemed closer to a #13, in that it was clearly not the proper diameter, but also not just a #14. Lately I seem to be seeing it more.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt cheating given the price of copper these days. If you can notice a difference probably the few dollars for a measurement tool would be well spent. You can go with a regular caliper and look up the diameters for #14, 12 etc. or that Burndy wiremike Tom recommends will do it directly.


-Hal
 
the 224 page UL 2556 "Wire and Cable Test Methods" is very specific about measuring AWG wires.
 
hbiss said:
I don't doubt cheating given the price of copper these days. If you can notice a difference probably the few dollars for a measurement tool would be well spent. You can go with a regular caliper and look up the diameters for #14, 12 etc. or that Burndy wiremike Tom recommends will do it directly.


-Hal
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting, Hal. My Burndy
rep gave me a wiremike Many years ago. Don’t use on a hot wire
 
tom baker said:
Thanks for posting, Hal. My Burndy
rep gave me a wiremike Many years ago. Don’t use on a hot wire
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You know this from first hand experience?

What's been fun working on My Old House is just how thick the insulation is. I've been screwing around with this stuff since Nixon was president and I don't remember the insulation on NM being as thick as what's in the BX I'm slowly pulling out.

Also, I abandoned my first wire! Never done that before in my entire life. At least I feel like somebody!
 
10 years ago I got a reel of 12/2 MC cable that turned out to be 14/2; it was clearly labeled on the jacket as 12/2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
hbiss said:
I don't doubt cheating given the price of copper these days. If you can notice a difference probably the few dollars for a measurement tool would be well spent. You can go with a regular caliper and look up the diameters for #14, 12 etc. or that Burndy wiremike Tom recommends will do it directly.


-Hal
Click to expand...

The other possibility is they invested in equipment able to draw the wire to the "minimum" diameter more reliably than otherwise. I don't remember which MechEng class I took which talked about that, but if the cost of the improved accuracy is less than the material saving, that's a valid economic decision.

Wording it that way it might have been Engineering Economics? I forget. I'm old and forget things.
 
brantmacga said:
10 years ago I got a reel of 12/2 MC cable that turned out to be 14/2; it was clearly labeled on the jacket as 12/2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
It's definitely not #14. The insulation on #14 THHN is smaller enough that you can't strip it with the #12 stripper notch thing. But also, the conductor was too big to be #14, which is why I said it seemed like the mythical #13 (which isn't mythical, it's just not used).
 
retirede said:
Does being on crack make wire look smaller?[emoji2
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tallgirl said:
Thanks. I've ordered one.

Next time I run into a suspicious piece of wire I'll check it out.
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IMO every man and woman should have a set of 6" dial calipers. Even the Chinese ones always seem to be accurate to +/- a thousandth:

www.grizzly.com

Stainless Steel Dial Caliper w/ Black Face 6" - Grizzly Industrial, Inc.

Easy to read black face dial caliper features .001" graduations, hardened and ground stainless steel main beam with hardened, ground and lapped measuring faces. Knurled thumb roll and 360 degree adjustable bezel make inside, outside and depth and step measurements quick and precise. Includes...
www.grizzly.com www.grizzly.com
 
tallgirl said:
It's definitely not #14. The insulation on #14 THHN is smaller enough that you can't strip it with the #12 stripper notch thing. But also, the conductor was too big to be #14, which is why I said it seemed like the mythical #13 (which isn't mythical, it's just not used).
Click to expand...
There was a recent thread on the EGC size in SER cables, and someone posted a spec sheet, (I think from southwire) that showed one with 3-3-3-5 conductor sizes. #3 AL is rare enough, but that #5 is mythical 🦄
 
electrofelon said:
IMO every man and woman should have a set of 6" dial calipers. Even the Chinese ones always seem to be accurate to +/- a thousandth:

www.grizzly.com

Stainless Steel Dial Caliper w/ Black Face 6" - Grizzly Industrial, Inc.

Easy to read black face dial caliper features .001" graduations, hardened and ground stainless steel main beam with hardened, ground and lapped measuring faces. Knurled thumb roll and 360 degree adjustable bezel make inside, outside and depth and step measurements quick and precise. Includes...
www.grizzly.com www.grizzly.com
Click to expand...
I have calipers for other things. But I keep my bicycle calipers in my bicycle tool box, and my "other" calipers in that disorganized tool box. I've been slowly organizing all my tools into the stackable Rigid tool boxes so I can find things in my old age.

The only thing I've not bought new is a torque screwdriver. I got one of my Silca torque drivers out of a bicycle bag. Small enough to shove in a pocket while I'm working.

 
electrofelon said:
IMO every man and woman should have a set of 6" dial calipers. Even the Chinese ones always seem to be accurate to +/- a thousandth:

www.grizzly.com

Stainless Steel Dial Caliper w/ Black Face 6" - Grizzly Industrial, Inc.

Easy to read black face dial caliper features .001" graduations, hardened and ground stainless steel main beam with hardened, ground and lapped measuring faces. Knurled thumb roll and 360 degree adjustable bezel make inside, outside and depth and step measurements quick and precise. Includes...
www.grizzly.com www.grizzly.com
Click to expand...
I gave a plastic dial caliper that is ok for what I need.
 
electrofelon said:
There was a recent thread on the EGC size in SER cables, and someone posted a spec sheet, (I think from southwire) that showed one with 3-3-3-5 conductor sizes. #3 AL is rare enough, but that #5 is mythical 🦄
Click to expand...
I recall the comments on the code change GeForce identification of the neutral. It was 6 and smaller, changed to 4 and larger, or vice versa, the comment was about a 5 AWG needed to be included
 
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