Under-gauge wire?

Status
Not open for further replies.
tallgirl said:
I've seen it from time to time in the past - a #12 which seemed closer to a #13, in that it was clearly not the proper diameter, but also not just a #14. Lately I seem to be seeing it more.

Some questions.

Am I on crack? Is this just manufacturing tolerance and I'm just paranoid because I've read too many news reports about counterfeit products?

Do some manufacturers run towards the smaller end of a hypothetical tolerance because they have tighter controls, so they can get away with it?
Click to expand...
The first time I was sent overseas for a short gig (18 months) , we had a short training about the native customs and we hire local laborers and drivers.

We were made aware about the local customs that are very different from ours. Some customs that may even offend some folks.
We are engineers –not medical practitioners or police officers but that’s the way it was.

Here, we were caught between a rock and a hard place (sort of).
We would never know in three days of training what is acceptable and what is not.
Just follow the rules or lose your job.

In the orientation, we were taught not to pat small child’s head or even touch them on the head or point onto something using your foot..

For the locals it is an insult.

Easy enough to follow but one area that I found interesting was how to detect drug use. This system is illegal in the US. (in some cases)

One quick check is observing a worker’s (electricians) of possible drug use by looking at their eyes.

Dilated pupil is a telltale sign that a person is high on drugs. This has been debated however, that’s the reason it’s illegal here.

It was high security project that we were involved in--and we couldn’t use a passive approach in having junkies working in there..
That’s what the expert say. and not that I’m a recovering junky. LOL

Yeah, with dilated iris it could be hard to tell whether it’s a #14 AWG or a #12 AWG. . . . let alone determine wire colors.
Do you wear contacts or glasses TG?

If I may ask.

BTW: The metric system uses mm2 in sizing their wires. Common practice in Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia and Hongkong to mention a few.
AWG is alien to them.

The closest size to the North American wire gauge for #14 is smaller because they operate at 230 volts.

You did not bring those wires when you came back stateside did you? :)

Fish
 
Don’t forget that the physical diameter is much larger with fine strand. That’s why the compression lug charts have a separate column for “FLEX” and why UL has tons of warnings about making sure the lugs are compatible with fine strand. Typically you have to go up a size on the lugs. Your first hint that something is wrong is that it barely fits or won’t fit in the coarse strand lug marked for that size.

Most SE I’ve seen is compacted or coarse strand but I noticed Southwire advertising “AlumaFLEX” which sure sounds like fine strand.
 
winnie said:
I can sell you a couple of inquisitive teenagers who will take care of your tool problem.

Jon
Click to expand...
I'll be building one more house before I die. Mind to sell an option to inflict manual labor on them in maybe 5 or 6 years, in exchange for all of my too-high-quality hand tools when I die?

Judging from how well they've survived so far, there'd be quite a few of them!
 
Fishbrain said:
The first time I was sent overseas for a short gig (18 months) , we had a short training about the native customs and we hire local laborers and drivers.

We were made aware about the local customs that are very different from ours. Some customs that may even offend some folks.
We are engineers –not medical practitioners or police officers but that’s the way it was.

Here, we were caught between a rock and a hard place (sort of).
We would never know in three days of training what is acceptable and what is not.
Just follow the rules or lose your job.

In the orientation, we were taught not to pat small child’s head or even touch them on the head or point onto something using your foot..

For the locals it is an insult.

Easy enough to follow but one area that I found interesting was how to detect drug use. This system is illegal in the US. (in some cases)

One quick check is observing a worker’s (electricians) of possible drug use by looking at their eyes.

Dilated pupil is a telltale sign that a person is high on drugs. This has been debated however, that’s the reason it’s illegal here.

It was high security project that we were involved in--and we couldn’t use a passive approach in having junkies working in there..
That’s what the expert say. and not that I’m a recovering junky. LOL

Yeah, with dilated iris it could be hard to tell whether it’s a #14 AWG or a #12 AWG. . . . let alone determine wire colors.
Do you wear contacts or glasses TG?

If I may ask.

BTW: The metric system uses mm2 in sizing their wires. Common practice in Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia and Hongkong to mention a few.
AWG is alien to them.

The closest size to the North American wire gauge for #14 is smaller because they operate at 230 volts.

You did not bring those wires when you came back stateside did you? :)

Fish
Click to expand...
Now that I've looked up the tolerances, I believe what I'm actually seeing is the permissible range of physical sizes, with one particular vendor (I can get there name if anyone cares) very meticulously producing wire towards the smaller range of permissible diameters.

Thanks to COVID, I've been buying whatever I can find. I have my brand new Burndy Wire Mike and will check some wires once I'm done framing the remaining wall. If the differences are on the extremes I might even try and get some photos the next time I'm in the lab with a microscope.

As for my vision, I'm old and wear bifocals these days. None of the wires have been #14 yet, but they do seem to get awfully close! The largest #14 and the smallest #12 are scary-close. My impression is that Southwire spools of #12 THHN are the "biggest" and whatever 12/2 MC I recently bought is consistently the smallest. The absolute largest seems to be a bag of #12 ground pigtails I bought before COVID. I have a theory about why that is. It'll be interesting to put the Wire Mike on one and see what it has to say.
 
tallgirl said:
Now that I've looked up the tolerances, I believe what I'm actually seeing is the permissible range of physical sizes, with one particular vendor (I can get there name if anyone cares) very meticulously producing wire towards the smaller range of permissible diameters.

Thanks to COVID, I've been buying whatever I can find. I have my brand new Burndy Wire Mike and will check some wires once I'm done framing the remaining wall. If the differences are on the extremes I might even try and get some photos the next time I'm in the lab with a microscope.

As for my vision, I'm old and wear bifocals these days. None of the wires have been #14 yet, but they do seem to get awfully close! The largest #14 and the smallest #12 are scary-close. My impression is that Southwire spools of #12 THHN are the "biggest" and whatever 12/2 MC I recently bought is consistently the smallest. The absolute largest seems to be a bag of #12 ground pigtails I bought before COVID. I have a theory about why that is. It'll be interesting to put the Wire Mike on one and see what it has to say.
Click to expand...
🤔
I have several of these laying around the yard and in the office somewhere… they used to give them away

I don’t have one in front of me but I didn’t think they had a 12 on there.. went from 14 to 10.
 
Hv&Lv said:
🤔
I have several of these laying around the yard and in the office somewhere… they used to give them away

I don’t have one in front of me but I didn’t think they had a 12 on there.. went from 14 to 10.
Click to expand...
It doesn't have a "12", but I can squint hard enough to see where the middle of those two are. If things get questionable I'll have to find the calipers I have for measuring bicycle disc brakes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top