Relying on a device to pass neutral and power?

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Bbaehre91

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Location
Lansing Michigan
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Electrician
It grinds my gears when i see 2 wires in a box and someone just puts the wires on the receptacles instead of making a joint. I thought I had read at one point it was against code to rely on the device to pass power. I can’t find it. Does anyone know just curious?
 
Bbaehre91 said:
It grinds my gears when i see 2 wires in a box and someone just puts the wires on the receptacles instead of making a joint. I thought I had read at one point it was against code to rely on the device to pass power. I can’t find it. Does anyone know just curious?
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I don't recall any such rule. What would be the point of such a rule?

There is a rule that you have to be able to remove the device without opening up a ground connection to another device so grounds have to be pigtailed.
 
Bbaehre91 said:
It grinds my gears when i see 2 wires in a box and someone just puts the wires on the receptacles instead of making a joint.
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Most devices have been tested and listed for multiple connections using the terminals so don't let it worry you to much, it is safe.
 
petersonra said:
I don't recall any such rule. What would be the point of such a rule?

There is a rule that you have to be able to remove the device without opening up a ground connection to another device so grounds have to be pigtailed.
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I prefer to wire nut two wires but in smaller boxes this often brings up the cubic inch box calculation so then you have to bring both white & black wires to the receptacle. We had a lazy sparky who more then once ran a total of 9 wires to a 125 volt duplex spec grade receptacle that had pressure plates allowing 1 screw to secure two wires. I was taught to identify the black energized conductor with a wrap if tape.
 
garbo said:
I prefer to wire nut two wires but in smaller boxes this often brings up the cubic inch box calculation so then you have to bring both white & black wires to the receptacle. We had a lazy sparky who more then once ran a total of 9 wires to a 125 volt duplex spec grade receptacle that had pressure plates allowing 1 screw to secure two wires. I was taught to identify the black energized conductor with a wrap if tape.
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I don't understand this. Isn't the conductor some color other than white already?
 
On bigger jobs, I'll identify cables with two-letter abbreviations (FI, FO, SL, TR, etc.) inside boxes with a Sharpie.

It's rarely an issue, though, as I make up my boxes at rough-in, hooks on the wires and positioned for each device.
 
LarryFine said:
On bigger jobs, I'll identify cables with two-letter abbreviations (FI, FO, SL, TR, etc.) inside boxes with a Sharpie.

It's rarely an issue, though, as I make up my boxes at rough-in, hooks on the wires and positioned for each device.
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feed in
feed out
switch leg
traveler
 
LarryFine said:
On bigger jobs, I'll identify cables with two-letter abbreviations (FI, FO, SL, TR, etc.) inside boxes with a Sharpie.

It's rarely an issue, though, as I make up my boxes at rough-in, hooks on the wires and positioned for each device.
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I finished a house behind a guy who stripped and hooked all the wires. I didn't know it until I grabbed the center of the roll and yanked it out of the box.

Fish hooked my index finger and ripped it open about 3/4 inch

I wanted to grab him by the throat and squeeze
🤬🤬🤬🤬
 
James L said:
I finished a house behind a guy who stripped and hooked all the wires. I didn't know it until I grabbed the center of the roll and yanked it out of the box.

Fish hooked my index finger and ripped it open about 3/4 inch

I wanted to grab him by the throat and squeeze
🤬🤬🤬🤬
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Sorry about that. :confused: I guess it's better to rough and trim your own work.
 
petersonra said:
What difference would it make?
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Well it would in a switch box with a 3-way switch leg and travelers, load or power in. Also, if there is a GFCI receptacle, you need to know which wires to put on the line side.
I don't use tape or mark them, I have a way of placing the wires that I go by. Things like the KO closest to te stud is for power, I wrap wires around each other a certain way also.
 
Little Bill said:
Well it would in a switch box with a 3-way switch leg and travelers, load or power in. Also, if there is a GFCI receptacle, you need to know which wires to put on the line side.
I don't use tape or mark them, I have a way of placing the wires that I go by. Things like the KO closest to te stud is for power, I wrap wires around each other a certain way also.
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My system is usually anything not marked at all is "line" or "hot all the time". Anything marked is marked with the function that applies. Marking a cable with "load" would be the switched load in a switch box, or maybe the load side of a GFCI. In boxes with multiple switches, cable would be marked with name or abbreviation of whatever load it supplies, all "line" cables still unmarked.

Box with 2 wire in, 3 wire out or vice versa on other end of a three way circuit - very likely no markings at all - I know what it is. If someone else has to finish my rough in, say I got fired from the job, why would I care? Let them figure it out. If I had an employee, hopefully they eventually learn, if they can't learn they probably aren't going to work out in long run. If they are somewhat temporary help to begin with I probably won't have them making up such connections, will leave them with the simpler line in - line out receptacle outlets while I work on the boxes with more complex connections.
 
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