USB receptacles in bench seat

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slc410

Electrician
Location
Madison wi
Occupation
Electrician
The owner of the restaurant I'm doing is putting in a long padded bench seat along a wall. He wants to put four recessed USB only receptacles (no 120v) in the front of the bench where your legs go for cell device charging. The boxes will be metal and the wiring type is MC or possibly half inch flex. The seat top is removable and he does plan on storing some things in it. I just would like some thoughts on if it's a good idea or not and maybe a code article. My thought is we are allowed to wire lights, etc in an attic with romex and plastic boxes so it seems this would be along those same lines if not better.
 
Sounds fine to me as well. Just a thought....might want to put regular receps as well as some people won't use a USB outlet in a public place (I won't) and prefer to use their charger. Many places, such as airports typically give both options, admittedly for folks with laptops but also for those who won't use a public USB. And keep in mind if they get heavy use you'll changing out the devices pretty regularly.
 
texie said:
And keep in mind if they get heavy use you'll changing out the devices pretty regularly.
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Agreed. They probably won't last very long and will need swapped annually at best if my guess. You know every time we plug into USB, we have a 50/50 chance of getting the oriented correctly...and I'm wrong about 90% of the time. LOL
 
texie said:
Sounds fine to me as well. Just a thought....might want to put regular receps as well as some people won't use a USB outlet in a public place (I won't) and prefer to use their charger. Many places, such as airports typically give both options, admittedly for folks with laptops but also for those who won't use a public USB. And keep in mind if they get heavy use you'll changing out the devices pretty regularly.
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Is this out of fear of some potential security breach via the USB?

Is that even possible with a port that is for power only? Or are they just scared it might be more than a power only port?

I can understand not wanting to plug into something that also has network communications abilities.
 
kwired said:
Is this out of fear of some potential security breach via the USB?

Is that even possible with a port that is for power only? Or are they just scared it might be more than a power only port?

I can understand not wanting to plug into something that also has network communications abilities.
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Many USB receps are low power, 1a, 1.2a or 2a

But many devices require 2.4, 3.0 or greater.

My son had an HTC that used a 6.0 block charger, and could never find a public charger that worked
 
kwired said:
Is this out of fear of some potential security breach via the USB?

Is that even possible with a port that is for power only? Or are they just scared it might be more than a power only port?

I can understand not wanting to plug into something that also has network communications abilities.
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You have no way of knowing what might be on the line side of the USB connection, so security could be an issue. Nefarious people have installed public chargers that try to access the data on any device connected to the charger.

If you are really concerned about that, get an USB cable that only has the two power conductors, but does not have the two data conductors.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
You have no way of knowing what might be on the line side of the USB connection, so security could be an issue. Nefarious people have installed public chargers that try to access the data on any device connected to the charger.

If you are really concerned about that, get an USB cable that only has the two power conductors, but does not have the two data conductors.
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I think they exist. I've had a cable that if I plug phone into USB port on my computer will charge the phone but can not talk between the two with that cable. Think it was included with some other device as a charging cable for that device, like maybe a external battery or even maybe a bluetooth speaker.
 
James L said:
Many USB receps are low power, 1a, 1.2a or 2a

But many devices require 2.4, 3.0 or greater.

My son had an HTC that used a 6.0 block charger, and could never find a public charger that worked
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I could be wrong but say a phone plugged into low power USB would just charge at slower rate than if it could use full ability of a higher powered USB port.
 
Frank DuVal said:
How about the new USB C standard, or the new one after that! :unsure:
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Isn't that USB C just the design that is often the "other end" of what typically has a "regular" USB plug on the "supply end"

Newer version of the "micro USB" plug? Might have different power and/or data carrying ability than the micro USB had?
 
kwired said:
Isn't that USB C just the design that is often the "other end" of what typically has a "regular" USB plug on the "supply end"

Newer version of the "micro USB" plug? Might have different power and/or data carrying ability than the micro USB had?
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They make USB-C chargers, and dual A & C chargers.

You can get a cord with C on one end and micro on the other, and also a C on each end.
 
kwired said:
I could be wrong but say a phone plugged into low power USB would just charge at slower rate than if it could use full ability of a higher powered USB port.
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Typically with micro charging, yes.

Some of the C devices just won't charge at all without a minimum charge rate
 
James L said:
They make USB-C chargers, and dual A & C chargers.

You can get a cord with C on one end and micro on the other, and also a C on each end.
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That is a charger with USB-C ports and you would use cord with C type on each end I would presume.

What I don't know is whether the C type has different power and/or data transferring ability than the micro USB type has.

If you had USB-C charger and plugged in with a cable that had micro on other end you maybe don't get any benefits that the C type might have over the micro type?
 
Yeah, we talked about USB receptacles at length here before. The consensus was that it's better to just provide a 120v receptacle and use the charger for the phone or device rather than something that will be incompatible, will become obsolete or have to be replaced on a frequent basis. You can use commercial grade duplex receptacles that will last a long time being plugged and unplugged. And they are much cheaper to replace when the time comes.

You can't expect a restaurant owner to understand this.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
Yeah, we talked about USB receptacles at length here before. The consensus was that it's better to just provide a 120v receptacle and use the charger for the phone or device rather than something that will be incompatible, will become obsolete or have to be replaced on a frequent basis. You can use commercial grade duplex receptacles that will last a long time being plugged and unplugged. And they are much cheaper to replace when the time comes.

You can't expect a restaurant owner to understand this.

-Hal
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I'd also guess restaurant owner doesn't intend to replace them when they go bad whether it be within first year or if it is say 5 years later. Might not even know they are bad if customers don't complain about it, many won't but some probably will.
 
kwired said:
That is a charger with USB-C ports and you would use cord with C type on each end I would presume.
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My wife and I each have low-end iPad devices that have Apple Lightning charge ports. The 2020 version has C to C cable and a C charger. The 2017 (I think) came with a USB-A port and A-Lightning cable.
kwired said:
What I don't know is whether the C type has different power and/or data transferring ability than the micro USB type has.
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What a can of worms. Depending on the power ratings, a C power source offers a variety of voltages. A device needing only 5V can plug into any of them.

If it is <=15W, it is 5V only
If it is 15W-27W, it adds 9V
If it is 27W-45W, it adds 15V
If it is 45W-100W, it adds 20V

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#USB_Power_Delivery for more info

The CONNECTOR supports as of now up to 40 Gbps. Few cables do.
kwired said:
If you had USB-C charger and plugged in with a cable that had micro on other end you maybe don't get any benefits that the C type might have over the micro type?
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I believe, but don't know, that some Android devices use a micro and 9V. I know that USB-C to Lightning supplies 9V to more modern iPhones and iPads. Apple furnishes 18W or 20W wall warts. SOMEHOW there has to be communication to the source.

I also have a MacBook Air which is USB-C as a charge port. Apple furnishes a 30W wall wart with it. I suspect it used 15V to charge. I have an aftermarket charger from Anker which is rated 45W; it charges any of my devices with USB-C or lightning ports. I don't know if it gets to the 20V level, nor do I know how to measure it. The smart load must be connected. I would not mind stripping a basic (I think 400 kbps max) to see, but haven't.
 
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