warren ostroff
Member
- Location
- NYC
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Anyone aware of the SQD SPA pricing? Id love to hear your tricks, approach, work arounds and attitude towards it.
Square D SPA Pricing
- Thread starter warren ostroff
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LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Welcome to the forum.
Unless you're talking about a hot tub disconnect, I have no idea what that is.
Unless you're talking about a hot tub disconnect, I have no idea what that is.
warren ostroff
Member
- Location
- NYC
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Its the special pricing SQD gives. If you buy a lot of SQd you sign a pricing agreement with the supplyhouse, only one they allow you. They give rebates to the supply house allowing the supply house to give you better pricing. Its a bit of a sham on SQD part so thats why i wanted to talk to some people around the country to see there work around....
jaggedben
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern California
- Occupation
- Solar and Energy Storage Installer
How is it a sham?
It's effectively just a version of a volume discount. Sq-D and the supply house are willing to give you lower pricing in return for a commitment that you will shop from them, thereby ensuring them more business for the same overhead. You shouldn't be trying to game it somehow. You're entitled to pay regular retail price if you don't want to be locked into one supplier.
(SPA = special pricing agreement, for those who may not know.)
It's effectively just a version of a volume discount. Sq-D and the supply house are willing to give you lower pricing in return for a commitment that you will shop from them, thereby ensuring them more business for the same overhead. You shouldn't be trying to game it somehow. You're entitled to pay regular retail price if you don't want to be locked into one supplier.
(SPA = special pricing agreement, for those who may not know.)
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
How would they enforce it? Is the pricing is so much better that it wouldn't make sense to shop elsewhere?
Keep in mind that I'm looking at it from a mom'n'pop-sized shop point of view.
If I need something now, and there's an orange or blue store miles closer, it would have to be one heck of a discount.
warren ostroff
Member
- Location
- NYC
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
When you get into the operation guidelines of the SPA they are nonexistent. There are no published rules or guides that SqD puts out. Granted you understand the SPA so as not get into the weeds, I’ll give one example. This happened yesterday while on a zoom with SqD and my vendor Who holds the spa. My question was I needed a breaker that was on my SPA. My vendor didn’t have it, he called SQD and they didn’t have it. So I bought it from a different vendor and I pad $600.00 instead of the $288 spa price. I wanted the difference refunded to me because as I understand if it’s on my Spa I buy it at that price. I was told by SQD no, the contract says they don’t have to have the breaker it’s only if it’s available. I said show me the rule book or guidelines, they said there is none. I said then how do I do work arounds… so because I am a very large purchaser of SQD they told me I would qualify as having an individual Spa as opposed to the residential group SPA I was in. So what’s the difference?. The answer was vague. On this call was the top east coast people so because I buy a lot they will oil my squeaky wheel but if you are normal everyday contractor my opinion is 90% of them don’t know what they don’t know. Once you start peeling back the layers it’s messy and not very Kosher…that only one example I can give you ten of why the SQD Spa is problematic.
warren ostroff
Member
- Location
- NYC
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Larry. Can you do me a favor. Try to look up on the web how a SQD spa works.. my bet you won’t find a detailed description of the operational procedures but if you do please send it to me by PM. I’ve looked and looked. No luck..
Thank you
Thank you
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curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I have S.P.A. pricing for SquareD, Legrand and several other manufactures through my primary supply house. I honestly don't know all the details of how it's done on the back end and don't care but I know my prices are much better. In most cases below the normal cost of my suppliers.
Unfortunately the new generation of contractors doesn't want to work with supply houses and thinks HD, Lowes, Amazon etc have good prices. They don't realize how expensive the box stores really are. When they need to get stuff from supply houses that the big box stores don't have they pay a premium since they don't buy much from the supply houses.
I have been in the trade for almost 40 years. If I was told I had to buy all my material from big boxes I would find a new career. The selection is horrible and the prices are high on almost everything.
Unfortunately the new generation of contractors doesn't want to work with supply houses and thinks HD, Lowes, Amazon etc have good prices. They don't realize how expensive the box stores really are. When they need to get stuff from supply houses that the big box stores don't have they pay a premium since they don't buy much from the supply houses.
I have been in the trade for almost 40 years. If I was told I had to buy all my material from big boxes I would find a new career. The selection is horrible and the prices are high on almost everything.
warren ostroff
Member
- Location
- NYC
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Curt. There are a few categories you fall into when you SPa. Individual, resi group, commercial group ect. You are entitled to get a list of all the material you have bought on the Spa form your spa vendor. Then ask to see the spa list. Anything can be added to your spa list I would bet you you buy a lot that is not on your spa and think it is and pay more. Also your spa is negotiable so after you get the list you start negotiating.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
Our local supply house is 20 to 100% HIGHER than the big box stores. The only thing I have found cheaper, is commercial grade receptacles. The supply house is way higher on wire and conduit. I have to travel 20-30 miles out of the way, to an area with three supply houses, and they are not much cheaper. You have to do $250,000+ in business with them to get a better price. That works fine if your a large contractor.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
The only thing I could find was about a case that SqD won against a customer who was re-selling breakers.
warren ostroff
Member
- Location
- NYC
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
thank you
exactly. they keep the spa info out of the publics knowledge although i have heard they do that because its questionable about the legality of a some of the spa. Have not talked to a lawyer and its just gossip and you know whats that is worth. But from my personal experience i am seeing some things that dont appear to be very transparent...
warren ostroff
Member
- Location
- NYC
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Mr Hillbilly. Your situation is a good example of the lack of SPA knowledge issued by SQD and your supplier using that against you. I was told by SQD to get a SPA you need $50k in SQD business total to get a spa. You supplier seems to me is saying since you dont know how the Spa works we are going to try to not give you a spa and have to sell you cheaper so you will just go away. Monday i am going to ask if in my Spa agreement if it says if I have a restriction of NDA on pricing. If not we will have a conversation....
curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Warren, what exactly is your goal here? Why would you feel a need to talk to a lawyer? You feel manufactures should be banned from offering good customers better pricing?
How is that any different than suppliers offering better pricing to good customers? You realize that HD also negotiates with customers for larger orders?
You feel HD should pay the same price for material as a small family run hardware store?
As far as my pricing and SPA agreements with multiple manufactures. I have been in the trade almost 40 years and have been dealing with suppliers for that long. I have always had custom pricing even if its not a SPA with the manufacture. I have had the same sales person for over 20 years at my primary supplier. He actually worked at a different supplier that was purchased by a large international company (Sonepar). He quit and moved to a different supplier and I followed him over. He has always been good to me. I have always kept an eye on pricing and if I see something not right he will have the prices changed in the system.
As I mentioned in my previous post even without SPA pricing for many manufactures I get better pricing than HD on 95% of item I buy.
How is that any different than suppliers offering better pricing to good customers? You realize that HD also negotiates with customers for larger orders?
You feel HD should pay the same price for material as a small family run hardware store?
As far as my pricing and SPA agreements with multiple manufactures. I have been in the trade almost 40 years and have been dealing with suppliers for that long. I have always had custom pricing even if its not a SPA with the manufacture. I have had the same sales person for over 20 years at my primary supplier. He actually worked at a different supplier that was purchased by a large international company (Sonepar). He quit and moved to a different supplier and I followed him over. He has always been good to me. I have always kept an eye on pricing and if I see something not right he will have the prices changed in the system.
As I mentioned in my previous post even without SPA pricing for many manufactures I get better pricing than HD on 95% of item I buy.
warren ostroff
Member
- Location
- NYC
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
My goal here is 2 fold. First is to have someone more educated in the SQD Spa then me have a conversation where i can pick their brains. And secondly is i think the point you have missed completely is that a SQD Spa is totally different than any Spa, rebate, negotiated system you have ever encountered. Im not here to argue. Im here to try to find someone more astute with the SQD Spa and pick their brains..... As far as all your comments they are not relative to SQD spas. And not to be mean or antagonistic which I dont want to be but your answer strays from the Point. which is SQD SPA....Again not to sound mean but your answer sound like you are not that familiar with the SQd spa.... which is fine. Maybe this can be a lesson for both of us...
Believe me, im not here to fight or argue. Its a forum to pick peoples brains and share. Thats all I want to do. I run about 200 people in NYC. I in the business since 1967. We buy a lot of SQD and recently SQD changed a few policies which started a number of us contractors questioning the Spa. The more we questioned the more muddled it got and some of the contractors asked some very good questions. Two things whether you knew this or not and Im talking about SQD Spa. there are literally 100s of various categories you can fall into with various structures of rebates..... The other point is SQD will not divulge any of that info.
If you have a SQD spa you are locked into one supply house. (you can change but takes two weeks) That supply house registers you and they get a rebate on what you buy. Sqd Sets what items they want on your spa. You have no input to that. How do you put a new item on the Spa. Sqd will not tell you how they determine that..... you said you have a guy and he is your supply guy. Ask him about the SQD spa. When he answers you the answer will be general. Because he wont know how to answer hard questions. Ive talked to the largest suppliers in NYC. The inside people and they deal with this everyday cant answer a question like this. I want to add a product. what do i have to do to get it on my Spa... My Connecticut contractor friend asked his Cooper Spa. The answer was not sure have to get back to you. three weeks and no answer...
And forget about home depot thats for kids and amateurs. If you buy a lot of material you know the numbers and what it takes in the negotiating world. Information is king....
I thought Id try this forum because there are about 10 of us that are working on this together and between us we buy a lot of SQD and we are all in the dark...
So anything you can add would be appreciated....
my best
Believe me, im not here to fight or argue. Its a forum to pick peoples brains and share. Thats all I want to do. I run about 200 people in NYC. I in the business since 1967. We buy a lot of SQD and recently SQD changed a few policies which started a number of us contractors questioning the Spa. The more we questioned the more muddled it got and some of the contractors asked some very good questions. Two things whether you knew this or not and Im talking about SQD Spa. there are literally 100s of various categories you can fall into with various structures of rebates..... The other point is SQD will not divulge any of that info.
If you have a SQD spa you are locked into one supply house. (you can change but takes two weeks) That supply house registers you and they get a rebate on what you buy. Sqd Sets what items they want on your spa. You have no input to that. How do you put a new item on the Spa. Sqd will not tell you how they determine that..... you said you have a guy and he is your supply guy. Ask him about the SQD spa. When he answers you the answer will be general. Because he wont know how to answer hard questions. Ive talked to the largest suppliers in NYC. The inside people and they deal with this everyday cant answer a question like this. I want to add a product. what do i have to do to get it on my Spa... My Connecticut contractor friend asked his Cooper Spa. The answer was not sure have to get back to you. three weeks and no answer...
And forget about home depot thats for kids and amateurs. If you buy a lot of material you know the numbers and what it takes in the negotiating world. Information is king....
I thought Id try this forum because there are about 10 of us that are working on this together and between us we buy a lot of SQD and we are all in the dark...
So anything you can add would be appreciated....
my best
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Have you talked to your Square D salesperson or their Area Manager? Not the supply house people but someone direct with Square D.
It has been decades since I was involved in any Square D SPA, but back then you had a general market driven one (i.e. with a fixed list of residential items) as well as customized ones for larger contractors in the commercial and industrial markets.
It has been decades since I was involved in any Square D SPA, but back then you had a general market driven one (i.e. with a fixed list of residential items) as well as customized ones for larger contractors in the commercial and industrial markets.
curt swartz
Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Warren, if you are running 200 people you are in an entirely difference league that I am. My company is just 3 of us. I have had special pricing for
Eaton, Siemens and Square D over the years. The past 5+ years has been Square D
Our SPA pricing is mostly for residential equipment. For commercial projects my sales person sends the material list to the power guys at the supply house. They enter it an provide a quote. I also work with a local shop that manufactures switchboard and panel boards. IEM
When I built my own house my sales guy sent the order to the power guys since my main panel was a 400 amp panel board. Square D actually supplied the panel board along with (2) 225 amp QO load centers filled with AFCI and DF breakers for substantially less than I can get HOM for on the SPA agreement.
Eaton, Siemens and Square D over the years. The past 5+ years has been Square D
Our SPA pricing is mostly for residential equipment. For commercial projects my sales person sends the material list to the power guys at the supply house. They enter it an provide a quote. I also work with a local shop that manufactures switchboard and panel boards. IEM
When I built my own house my sales guy sent the order to the power guys since my main panel was a 400 amp panel board. Square D actually supplied the panel board along with (2) 225 amp QO load centers filled with AFCI and DF breakers for substantially less than I can get HOM for on the SPA agreement.
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