Simple Switch for load sharing

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letgomywago said:
Last point. In the field my inspector would say 1 is it listed and not just recognized and 2 what do the instructions say? This is more on the practical side.
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I agree that it is UL approved.
All I'm pointing out is it has to be installed in a code complaint manner.
It not as simple in some cases as others.
Code rules apply to the installation of the device.
Let's say you have an older house with no breaker space.
It was built in the 70's
I want to put a car charger iny garage.
The dryer is on the garage wall.
Perfect for adding the device.
Now we have to install in a NEC Approved manner.
I send out a guy to install.
He may or may not call me and say.
It an older three wire circuit.
10-2 g or 10-2 SEU.
So he taps this with a 10-2 going to garage charger. And follows the rest of the instructions.
Would this be code compliant?
Now, same type of install with the exception a range circuit.

Now what if we have a 120 volt individual branch circuit cord and plug connected for a washer and we do this and install for a 120 volt plug and cord connected hot tub.
With the exception of any GFCI, would this be code compliant?

Edit: keep in mind the device allows for a shared load.
 

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I should ad for the range using 8-2g or 8-2 SEU. Do not want to give the impression of using 10 awg for range.

Also in older homes the use of 10-3 and 8-3 we're also used. So that can be applied to the above.



I do see where these can be used as long as we apply code to the install. And it is not as simple as cut tap and go.
 
Tulsa Electrician said:
I do see where these can be used as long as we apply code to the install. And it is not as simple as cut tap and go.
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You've laid out good scenarios where practice in the field may not live up to the expectations in the engineering room.

I agree 100% that is not just cut-and-dry in every instance.Particularly in the instances where you have that 2-wire + ground circuit, Whether it be an air conditioner come a range come or a dryer. Then somebody wants to come and tap off of that to put in this device and add something that requires a separate neutral and ground
 
LarryFine said:
If you need to add a neutral, it would be easiest to install this near the panel.
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Here is where I have a question.
Based on the dryer range thing.
Three wire circuit.
If I change the first part to a four wire for a netural then would I be able to use the existing three wire circuit if it had a insulated netural being used also as a EGC. Or would the rest of the existing circuit need to be replaced.

To me this is where we get into a tap.
So tap or no tap. I would see this as a feeder serving to branch circuits since it can serve to loads.

Maybe overthinking it. 🤔
How you every one else view this.
That may help me get past it.
Thank you.
 
Ok may have found my ansawer.
240.2 Tap conductor.

So 30/ 30, 40/40 etc I would say no.
50/30 etc I would say yes.
It that how other would see this?
 
Tulsa Electrician said:
Here is where I have a question.
Based on the dryer range thing.
Three wire circuit.
If I change the first part to a four wire for a netural then would I be able to use the existing three wire circuit if it had a insulated netural being used also as a EGC. Or would the rest of the existing circuit need to be replaced.

To me this is where we get into a tap.
So tap or no tap. I would see this as a feeder serving to branch circuits since it can serve to loads.

Maybe overthinking it. 🤔
How you every one else view this.
That may help me get past it.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
If the circuit wasn't compliant because of an un insulated nuetral in nmb I wouldn't touch it. If it's se cable or non grounded nmb I would treat it like it was in a junction box at a service change that would mean I'd need to supply a ground to the junction box but not rewire the whole circuit. This would be a situation where I'd put the box by the panel to supply the new work with a ground properly.
 
letgomywago said:
If the circuit wasn't compliant because of an un insulated nuetral in nmb I wouldn't touch it. If it's se cable or non grounded nmb I would treat it like it was in a junction box at a service change that would mean I'd need to supply a ground to the junction box but not rewire the whole circuit. This would be a situation where I'd put the box by the panel to supply the new work with a ground properly.
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Thank you for your response.
I'm now over in 240.10.
Then it is time to get ready for football.
Thank you everyone. I think I got my head wrapped around this device.
 
letgomywago said:
I feel that this would be treated by the code if addressed ever as 2 dedicated circuits that don't run concurrently such as in load calcs when calculating heat and ac loads or counting current carrying conductors in a raceway. There is also the current push in the industry to go towards electrification (apart from politics it is the current market trend to make electrification easier and more common to consumers) this could push to make things more permissive. Now this last reason doesn't always apply like the shortage of housing does not push the expanded afci/gfci or outside disconnect rules out of the way in the NEC or in my state's current amendments but it has in other nearby states amendments.


Last point. In the field my inspector would say 1 is it listed and not just recognized and 2 what do the instructions say? This is more on the practical side.
Click to expand...
Good comments on the practical side. A homeowner gets interested and then we have to make it work.
 
tom baker said:
simpleswitch.io

EVEMS which allows power sharing for full electric panels – simpleSwitch

Expand your electric panel for high-power devices like a Type 2 EVSE, RV outlet, or A/C. Use existing power efficiently—charge a Tesla even in apartments!
simpleswitch.io simpleswitch.io
This device allows load sharing for an EV or dryer, range.
I checked and it’s UL listed.
It was in a Facebook ad I saw.
Perhaps a solution for panels with limited ckts or ampacit
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Yes it is a good solution. First thought for the SimpleSwitch was for multi family. Can’t upgrade because of expense but monitor panel to provide power when possible
 
I wonder what this will do to the 83% rule.

Imagine that you have several of these, say sharing a 50A circuit between stove and EVSE, a 30A circuit shared between clothes dryer and water heater, 30A between a heat pump and a well pump...

This would create a setup where you reduce the maximum peak demand but run on a more consistent moderate level.

You might enable a 100A service to work where previously you needed a 200A service. But would that 100A service be safe with 83A conductors (as currently permitted)?

Jon
 
winnie said:
I wonder what this will do to the 83% rule.
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That depends on what you think the reason for the 83% rule is.

If you think that it's a 1/0.83 = 1.2 ampacity adjustment factor for the case of only 2 CCCs, then the loading doesn't matter. But in that case it should never have been extended to 120/208 3-wire single phase, as it has 3 CCCs.

Cheers, Wayne
 
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