turning 2-pole circuit into 1-pole by simply disconnecting on ungrounded conductor

[RustyShackleford]

Came across this ... Kitchen had originally been wired with 50amp/240vac circuit for an electric range. At some point it was replaced with a gas range (only requiring 120vac) and they simply replaced the 240v receptacle with a 120v one and capped off one of the hot conductors, but left the 6/2 wiring and 50amp double-pole breaker in place.

Is this legal ? It seems sketchy to me. The main problem being that the OCPD is several multiplies of the new range's MCA. Also, I need to check again, but I don't think it's 6/3 wire, so they're still using EGC as the neutral. I suppose if I simply replaced the 50amp double-pole breaker with a 20amp single-pole one, and then used that disconnected hot as a neutral (moving it to neutral bar in panel, of course), it'd be fine. Except for the wire being WAY heavier than the OCPD, which I suppose is fine.

 

[ptonsparky]

Replace as you suggest.

 

[winnie]

If it is 6-3 wire, convert it back to a 50A range outlet, leave the 50A breaker, and use a plug in converter (with built in 15A fuse.)

If it is 6-2 wire, change to a single pole 20A breaker, use one of the hots as the 120V neutral, live with the miscolored neutral wire.

Jon

 

[ptonsparky]

I missed the 2 vs 3 wire. That does create problems.

I don't ever remember seeing just a 240 volt range

 

[LarryFine]

I have done this many times. Re-wire and re-color one of the line conductors as a grounded conductor, change the breaker to a 1p 15a or 20a, and pigtail if necessary to fit the new breaker.

If the OP's example had a line conductor capped off, they must have used the bare conductor as both grounded and grounding, which was dumb with the extra conductor still available.

 

[winnie]

I missed the 2 vs 3 wire. That does create problems.

I don't ever remember seeing just a 240 volt range

Probably a 3 wire range installed using SE cable with the concentric bare used as neutral and egc.

Not 6-2 NM used for a straight 240V load.

Jon

 

[ptonsparky]

Probably a 3 wire range installed using SE cable with the concentric bare used as neutral and egc.

Not 6-2 NM used for a straight 240V load.

Jon

Kind of why I skimmed over part of it. Figured it as SE.

 

[scrubbin]

I think I'd do like Winnie said reconnect as it was originally wired and use a converter also as Winnie said. Then if you decide to back to electric just unplug the converter.
Converter:

Southwire Gas Range Adapter 9042SW8801 - The Home Depot

Imagine you just purchased a new Gas Range to replace that old Electric one that came with the house. You budgeted for someone to come in to run the gas line, but what you did not take into account is

www.homedepot.com

 

[RustyShackleford]

I think I'd do like Winnie said reconnect as it was originally wired and use a converter also as Winnie said. Then if you decide to back to electric just unplug the converter.
Converter:

Southwire Gas Range Adapter 9042SW8801 - The Home Depot

Imagine you just purchased a new Gas Range to replace that old Electric one that came with the house. You budgeted for someone to come in to run the gas line, but what you did not take into account is

www.homedepot.com

I believe this adapter is meant to plug into a 4-wire 240v receptacle, which I wouldn't have, if, as I suspect, it was originally wired without a neutral (apologies for posting without complete information), as ranges almost always were in the past.

I think the only good solution is to do as suggested above: put in a 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle, and a single-pole 15- or 20-amp breaker, and use one of the currently-ungrounded conductors as a neutral. I doubt I'd have to re-identify the neutral; presumably one of the wires in the 6-2 romex originally used was white; I might have to un-re-identify it

 

[winnie]

If the original install was 6-2 'Romex', then it was likely a code violation from the get-go. You were never permitted to use the bare ground of NM cable as the neutral for a circuit.

You were permitted to use the bare conductor of type 'SE' cable.

If they had 6-2 NM cable for a 120/240V load, then when you go to reuse it, investigate carefully, and assume that the original installer didn't have a clue.

-Jon

 

[GoldDigger]

I think I'd do like Winnie said reconnect as it was originally wired and use a converter also as Winnie said. Then if you decide to back to electric just unplug the converter.
Converter:

Southwire Gas Range Adapter 9042SW8801 - The Home Depot

Imagine you just purchased a new Gas Range to replace that old Electric one that came with the house. You budgeted for someone to come in to run the gas line, but what you did not take into account is

www.homedepot.com

For those who are wondering how to reset the 15A overload protection when the unit is out of reach behind the stove, don't worry. It uses a non-replaceable fuse.

 

[ptonsparky]

4 wire. That will work for newer homes.
Looks like a Handyman or DIYer solution.

 

[RustyShackleford]

If the original install was 6-2 'Romex', then it was likely a code violation from the get-go. You were never permitted to use the bare ground of NM cable as the neutral for a circuit.

You were permitted to use the bare conductor of type 'SE' cable.

If they had 6-2 NM cable for a 120/240V load, then when you go to reuse it, investigate carefully, and assume that the original installer didn't have a clue.

-Jon

I misspoke. It probably was SE. I need to have another look. At any rate, even if it was acceptable back then, it's certainly not acceptable now, or to me in any case; I'll use one of the hots as a neutral and put in a 1-pole breaker and receptcle.

 

[LarryFine]

I believe this adapter is meant to plug into a 4-wire 240v receptacle, which I wouldn't have, if, as I suspect, it was originally wired without a neutral (apologies for posting without complete information), as ranges almost always were in the past.

Technically speaking, they were wired without EGCs.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Technically speaking, they were wired without EGCs.

Because, if a single conductor is attempting to serve both roles - EGC and grounded conductor - if actually accomplishes the latter by allowing current to flow to complete the circuit with ungrounded conductor(s), but doesn't accomplish the former because there's current inappropriately flowing in it ?

 

[LarryFine]

Because, if a single conductor is attempting to serve both roles - EGC and grounded conductor - if actually accomplishes the latter by allowing current to flow to complete the circuit with ungrounded conductor(s), but doesn't accomplish the former because there's current inappropriately flowing in it ?

It's actually the grounded conductor that used to be allowed to also be used for grounding purposes.

Note that, when this was allowed, the conductor had to be the bare of SE cable or an insulated wire.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Note that, when this was allowed, the conductor had to be the bare of SE cable or an insulated wire.

The rationale ?

 

[LarryFine]

The rationale ?

Why those conditions? I guess because it was primarily a current-carrying conductor.

If you think about it, a 3-wire major-appliance circuit was a lot like a 3-wire feeder.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Why those conditions? I guess because it was primarily a current-carrying conductor.

No, I mean why is it ok to do this with SE cable but not NM ?

 

[winnie]

Tradition!

Seriously: In 6-2 NM cable with a bare copper EGC, the EGC is _intended_ to be used as an EGC. In 6-2 SE the concentric bare wires are _intended_ to be used as neutral conductors. I don't know if there is an actual practical difference, but the rules permitted one bare conductor to be used as a neutral, but not the other.

-Jon