What amperage panel is this?

[catronics]

I've got a solar contractor needing to know if they can put a 40 amp breaker in my home's existing load center. If it's 125 amps or higher, they can get a permit to do it. I've always thought that it was a 100 amp panel with a 100 amp service going into it, and yes, it definitely is a 100 amp service. But I don't know about the load center.

My electric supply guy says it's a Siemens, and I think it is, too. The black plastic buss bar separator says ITE on it, and indeed Siemens bought ITE Gould in 1976(?). I've included some photos of my panel and a few screenshots of an ITE 125A bus bar I found on eBay.

Of course, I'll be putting in a new panel, and also signing up for a 200 amp service as I go all electric. But for now, the solar guys are breathing down my neck on this because we have a big deadline, like NOW, to grandfather in my old solar system, and panel, and keep my current NEM rate. (I'm in northern California, using Pacific Gas & Electric)

What do you think? Do any of you crusty old guys have experience with these older panels?

 

[curt swartz]

There is no label on the inside of the door? Without that your are pretty much out of luck. Even though there is a good chance the buss bar has a 125A rating how could you prove it? Pictures of a similar panel don't help.

 

[infinity]

I've got a solar contractor needing to know if they can put a 40 amp breaker in my home's existing load center. If it's 125 amps or higher, they can get a permit to do it. I've always thought that it was a 100 amp panel with a 100 amp service going into it, and yes, it definitely is a 100 amp service. But I don't know about the load center.

If the panel has a 100 amp main why does it matter if the bus is rated for 100 amp or larger?

 

[wwhitney]

If the panel has a 100 amp main why does it matter if the bus is rated for 100 amp or larger?

For PV installation under the 120% rule. If the busbar is 100A rated, maximum such backfeed is 20A with a 100A main. While if it is 125A rated, then the maximum such backfeed is 50A with a 100A main.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[catronics]

For PV installation under the 120% rule. If the busbar is 100A rated, maximum such backfeed is 20A with a 100A main. While if it is 125A rated, then the maximum such backfeed is 50A with a 100A main.

Cheers, Wayne

Aha! Yes, I think it's something like that. So if it's rated 125A, I'm in with that additional 40A breaker. Thanks!

 

[catronics]

If the panel has a 100 amp main why does it matter if the bus is rated for 100 amp or larger?

I don't know. Has to do with solar PV installations - some code regulation. See wwhitney's reply below.

 

[catronics]

There is no label on the inside of the door? Without that your are pretty much out of luck. Even though there is a good chance the buss bar has a 125A rating how could you prove it? Pictures of a similar panel don't help.

NO LABEL AT ALL I need all the knowhow I can get. And...... I'll be ditching this panel next year anyway.

 

[mtnelect]

Go to the AHJ and have a "Heart to Heart" talk.

 

[norcal]

It's a ITE 100A panel from the mid 1980's, built at the time when Siemens-Allis owned both ITE and Circle AW Products, plus used the ITE Imperial style bussing from the 1970's, and ITE went from two types of hubs to three, when they added AW hubs.

 

[jaggedben]

I was going to say it's a Gould, since the breakers seem to branded that way, but norcal is right it's I-T-E type breakers, amounts to the same thing. Gould was an owner of that I-T-E product line in the 80s like he mentioned.

If you're lucky enough that you live in a subdivision where all the houses were built with that panel, and a neighbor or two still has an identical looking panel with a label, the inspector might accept that. That's the only way that's ever worked for me other than assuming the bus is rated the same as the breaker. But if that doesn't pan out, or if the panel was a replacement on an older home as I suspect from the pictures, then you're SOL.

 

[catronics]

I was going to say it's a Gould, since the breakers seem to branded that way, but norcal is right it's I-T-E type breakers, amounts to the same thing. Gould was an owner of that I-T-E product line in the 80s like he mentioned.

If you're lucky enough that you live in a subdivision where all the houses were built with that panel, and a neighbor or two still has an identical looking panel with a label, the inspector might accept that. That's the only way that's ever worked for me other than assuming the bus is rated the same as the breaker. But if that doesn't pan out, or if the panel was a replacement on an older home as I suspect from the pictures, then you're SOL.

That's a great idea. I'll start I'll start doing a survey. I'll post back later when when I get more info and some photos. Thanks for the idea.

 

[catronics]

Thanks everyone for all your help. When I get a more definitive answer on that panel, I'll post that. Thanks, you guys, you're the best!

In the meantime, the EV contractor seems to be happy with my eBay images; we'll see what happens when they do the installation and call the inspector.

 

[qcroanoke]

Go to the AHJ and have a "Heart to Heart" talk.

And if that doesn't work (or you're pretty sure it won't) put it on a 20 amp breaker to pass inspection and put it on a 40 when you go to a 200 amp panel.

 

[jaggedben]

And if that doesn't work (or you're pretty sure it won't) put it on a 20 amp breaker to pass inspection and put it on a 40 when you go to a 200 amp panel.

That kinda doesn't work for plan check and other reasons, unless maybe you have PCS capability.

 

[Steve16]

If you plan to upgrade to 200 amp in the near future, why wouldn't the solar company just do the service upgrade now?

If it gets done now with the solar the service also counts towards the federal tax credit