24 Hour Building Backup

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bwat

EE
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NC
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EE
Client wants to discuss 24-hour backup power for a building. They want to use battery storage for the source of that backup power. I'm working on getting load specifics, but envision your usual local YMCA for a sense of scale and building type.

I don't have a ton of experience with this specific area, but the little that I do have indicates that something like this would maybe only have a battery backup or UPS for IT and critical systems for maybe just a few hours. Or maybe just enough to ride through the initial outage before generators kick on. So if they wanted to pursue a day or so of backup, that we'd be best suited to look at UPS, ATS, and generators. My gut feeling was that a battery-only solution for a day would end up being very large, very expensive, and that nobody does this.

Looking for any insight from the group here.
 
The better solution would be provide a generator capable of handling the full building load, and install point of use battery backups for some life safety lighting, and computer workstations/ IT cabinets
 
Batteries for long duration backup are hugely expensive. This is because you have to store lots of kWh (to cover the long duration) but you use the system very infrequently (how often do long duration power failures actually happen).

IMHO the suggestion of using generators to cover long duration needs makes far more sense. Storing an additional 1kWh in the form of Diesel fuel costs perhaps $0.30. Storing it in a battery costs $300. (Round, very approximate numbers, ignoring the fixed cost of setting the system.)

If the customer is concerned about the environment, the 'embodied energy' of creating the battery that stores that kWh is equal to using many kWh of Diesel. For extremely infrequent usage during a power outage, the large battery is almost certainly worse than using a generator.

Where a large battery might make sense is if it has regular use in addition to backup use. For example if the facility could use the battery to help the POCO 'peak shave' and get paid for that capacity. I don't know is such a grid interactive system would make economic sense, but they do make sense in some locations. I also don't know how complicated it would be to have a system that serves both grid interactive and island backup purposes.

Jon
 
From the Street side of things, make sure you have contract in hand before you approach anyone.
IMO your client is fishing, they think they want something as a long answer to their problem but won't hire anyone to tell them what they need.

Once you have a consult agreement in place, you can approach any major rental or diesel installer and they can cover the building requirements. Be sure to get all the numbers of a sale because they can vary: the machine, service /maintiance and testing, fueling, emergency service or fueling.
These guys will sell your client anything they want and meet their requirements and your out.

Even using a RFP, I'd limit it to City or down to zip code.
 
I had a client consider this concept. We suggested a static transfer switch (STS) to be installed downstream of the Main Service Disconnect so one source was utility and the other source is the multiple trailers worth of li-ion batteries.
They changed there mind to centralized UPS in that position for 7 minutes of VRLA batteries (more than needed) of backup for transition time to a diesel generator.
 
ron said:
I had a client consider this concept. We suggested a static transfer switch (STS) to be installed downstream of the Main Service Disconnect so one source was utility and the other source is the multiple trailers worth of li-ion batteries.
They changed there mind to centralized UPS in that position for 7 minutes of VRLA batteries (more than needed) of backup for transition time to a diesel generator.
Click to expand...
Awesome. If I had to predict the future, this is what I envision will happen.

"several trailers of li-ion batteries" seems like it's going to be incredibly expensive and also incredibly a headache to maintain and provide auxiliary equipment.. hvac.. fire protection... etc

I don't think they realize what they're asking for.
 
bwat said:
Awesome. If I had to predict the future, this is what I envision will happen.

"several trailers of li-ion batteries" seems like it's going to be incredibly expensive and also incredibly a headache to maintain and provide auxiliary equipment.. hvac.. fire protection... etc

I don't think they realize what they're asking for.
Click to expand...
The li-ion battery trailers come factory assembled with supporting infrastructure, you just connect aux power from the main building for charging and aux power for accessories.
 
scrubbin said:
Tell them they need something like this:
www.backupbatterypower.com

258 KWh (250 KWh) Industrial Battery Backup And Energy Storage Systems (ESS) (277/480Y Three Phase)

The industrial battery backup and energy storage system for generator replacement can typically power a 120 KVA 480 VAC load for over 2 hours. Backup time increases as the load drops with minor energy consumption adjustments like selectively running HVAC, turning off all unnecessary lights, and...
www.backupbatterypower.com www.backupbatterypower.com
Click to expand...
  • Typically Runs A 120 KVA Load For ~2 Hours
  • Typically Runs A 60 KVA Load For ~4 Hours
  • Typically Runs A 30 KVA Load For ~ 8 Hours
  • Typically Runs A 10 KVA Load For ~ 24 Hours
They will need several for a typical building load at 24 hours
 
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