Support of romex

[Pat75]

Hey there. I recently did a tiny job, reinstalled existing romex in a commercial Tennant bathroom remodeling. Literally used not an inch of new wire, even reused the switches and receptacles. The tenant space drop ceiling is FULL of very poorly, very poorly installed romex with date codes back to 2003.
Building inspector wants all of the existing romex reworked and properly supported. I totally get where he's coming from. I'm thinking of using new support wires from bar joists to ceiling grid and bat wings. A lot of them.
Just curious if there are other permissible means of support in situations like this.
Thanks!

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Firstly, nm is not allowed in a dropped ceiling in a non residential setting. 334.12

334.12 Uses Not Permitted

(A) Types NM and NMC.

Types NM and NMC cables shall not be permitted as follows:

• (1)
  In any dwelling or structure not specifically permitted in 334.10(1), (2), (3), and (5)
• (2)
  Exposed within a dropped or suspended ceiling cavity in other than one- and two-family and multifamily dwellings

 

[Strathead]

Hey there. I recently did a tiny job, reinstalled existing romex in a commercial Tennant bathroom remodeling. Literally used not an inch of new wire, even reused the switches and receptacles. The tenant space drop ceiling is FULL of very poorly, very poorly installed romex with date codes back to 2003.
Building inspector wants all of the existing romex reworked and properly supported. I totally get where he's coming from. I'm thinking of using new support wires from bar joists to ceiling grid and bat wings. A lot of them.
Just curious if there are other permissible means of support in situations like this.
Thanks!

See Dennis' comment. I wouldn't touch the existing romex, other than to remove it pending a valid change order from the owner.

 

[Pat75]

I totally understand what you are saying. The inspector is requiring me to secure it. I didn't install it. The date code on the wire goes back to 2001. So the question remains the same. I didn't put it in but my final is being held up because of it.

 

[rc/retired]

I totally understand what you are saying. The inspector is requiring me to secure it. I didn't install it. The date code on the wire goes back to 2001. So the question remains the same. I didn't put it in but my final is being held up because of it.

I'd rather secure it than replace it.

Ron

 

[Pat75]

Exactly, since I wasn't the one that installed it it.
Date code 2001.
No one is focusing on my question though.
If you were required....basically your final is held up....you aren't getting paid for what you did.....what method would you use to support it.
Don't even tell me that you wouldn't touch it. You're money is being held up.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It is hard to know without seeing what supports are available. I would fight with the inspector as you are not responsible for anything that is not in your contract of the job. If he wants to keep the owner from opening up that is fine but he should not be able to hold up your inspection.

 

[Pat75]

I give up.....

 

[Strathead]

I give up.....

I feel your frustration, but I will speak frankly. You should have known the code violation against Romex above a suspended ceiling and not expended the labor in the first place without discussing with the customer. The customer still owes you the money without the inspection, but that is a court matter. Once you support the romex you own it. Just eat the job and learn from it.

 

[Pat75]

I should have known? I absolutely knew....thats why all my work is in mc.
Once again someone responds in a condescending tone without answering the actual question. I've learned a lesson alright.
Any one of you could have been, will be or once was in a situation where your work was totally compliant yet had to correct someone else's mess. I'll be getting paid for the corrections to the previous installations....I'm not looking for scholarly wisdom....just ideas.

 

[HEYDOG]

334.30 talks about securing and supporting nonmetallic sheathed cable.

 

[ActionDave]

I don't think I'd use bat wings on romex. Zip ties, yes.

 

[Little Bill]

I should have known? I absolutely knew....thats why all my work is in mc.
Once again someone responds in a condescending tone without answering the actual question. I've learned a lesson alright.
Any one of you could have been, will be or once was in a situation where your work was totally compliant yet had to correct someone else's mess. I'll be getting paid for the corrections to the previous installations....I'm not looking for scholarly wisdom....just ideas.

I hope you are not expected to disconnect the wiring, support it like with bridle rings, then reconnect it!
I might try to support sections of strut with separate support wires, with the NM laying on the strut. I guess you could slide the strut under the NM then with a support wire on each end of the strut, lift the whole thing up and secure it to the building framing.

 

[LarryFine]

I hope you are not expected to disconnect the wiring, support it like with bridle rings, then reconnect it!

The bridle rings and J-hooks I've seen open. They even have some that clip on like batwings.

cable bridle ring - Google Search

 

[Little Bill]

The bridle rings and J-hooks I've seen open. They even have some that clip on like batwings.

cable bridle ring - Google Search

Was just thinking about some I had to run some Cat5E through, they were solid closed.

 

[James L]

I'm thinking of using new support wires from bar joists to ceiling grid and bat wings. A lot of them.
Just curious if there are other permissible means of support in situations like this.

I would probably ask the inspector if he has a suggestion. If he has none, I would ask if he'd accept wires with a cable stacker attached to it

They have a hole in them. You could run a short wire through it, then twist it around the grid wire.

Gardner Bender 15/16 in. Multi-Cable Snap Lock Staple (10-Pack) MCS-10W - The Home Depot

The Gardner Bender Multi-Cable Staples are great for reigning in complex cable runs. The tabs align themselves on wooden studs and pre-loaded nails allow for quick installations. Made with polypropylene

www.homedepot.com

 

[macmikeman]

If it is running all over the place you have a lot of work to do. If it is running in straight lines and maybe several are more or less closely parallel to each other then set 2-3 1/4" threaded rods down and bolt a 1x3" wood up to the rods and then staple or tie wrap to that. If someone says no wood above ceiling tiles than substitute the wood by cutting 3" strips of drywall in 8 ft long pieces and layer 2 strips together and then tie wrap the wire to that. But you still are not allowed to have nm cables above a drop ceiling in non dwelling structures so in all reality you are either running pipe or mc cable . You can use my support ideas for mc cable . Welcome to Electrical Contracting, where the best and foremost estimating tool is the National Electrical Code Book.

 

[Strathead]

I should have known? I absolutely knew....thats why all my work is in mc.
Once again someone responds in a condescending tone without answering the actual question. I've learned a lesson alright.
Any one of you could have been, will be or once was in a situation where your work was totally compliant yet had to correct someone else's mess. I'll be getting paid for the corrections to the previous installations....I'm not looking for scholarly wisdom....just ideas.

I wasn't being condescending, I was being blunt. As I said, once you touch it you own it. You gave no indication that you knew it wasn't allowed in the first place. What happens when you support to illegal Romex and 6 months from now the owner is selling the building and they come after you to replace the Romex you were the last person to work on? But, it is your funeral. As far as cheap, ceiling wires with ty wraps instead of the batwings is likely to be the cheapest means, if you can't get the Romex up to the building structure.

 

[rc/retired]

Once upon a time, Romex was allowed above a commercial dropped ceiling. We don't know when the original installation was.
It is possible the Romex can stay, being an existing compliant installation. Just saying.

Ron

 

[James L]

Once upon a time, Romex was allowed above a commercial dropped ceiling. We don't know when the original installation was.
It is possible the Romex can stay, being an existing compliant installation. Just saying.

Ron

OP said NM date code 2003, and I believe 2001 was mentioned.

My bet is that NM was probably code compliant at time of install (pre-2002 NEC)