Frequent Working Space Violations

[xguard]

We frequently encounter working space violations. I'm curious how often you experience this and what your success rate with having it corrected is: as an owner, designer, inspector etc. These units are both 240 VAC 3 phase with 208 high leg. In addition to the conduit running directly in front of the disconnect the unit on the left is only 32 inches away from it's disconnect. You can't see in this photo but there was plenty of room to lay this out differently. We try to catch it during rough in but miss some. To me even if it wasn't a code issue I wouldn't want conduits and refrigerant lines in my way if I were checking voltage in the disconnect. Thoughts? Opposing views?

 

[Krusscher]

I think in areas like this it's just expected but I don't understand the LB instead of a 90 on the ground

 

[augie47]

In terms of working clearance, HVAC disconnects are probably the most common 110.26 violation I see

 

[infinity]

Here in NJ they have determined that the unit disconnect does not require work space clearance. Since the wording in the NEC has been changed to explicitly include these disconnects maybe they'll change their mind.

 

[LarryFine]

I think in areas like this it's just expected but I don't understand the LB instead of a 90 on the ground

I believe that conduit contains the thermostat wiring to both units.

It hits what appears to be a tee body at the very bottom of the pic.

My guess as to why is the HVAC guy doesn't own a conduit bender.

 

[Jraef]

In terms of working clearance, HVAC disconnects are probably the most common 110.26 violation I see

If they are non-fused disconnects, most AHJs will allow it based on the idea that they didn’t need to be “opened and serviced”, ie no fuses to change.

 

[PaulMmn]

Do A/C manufacturers provide diagrams showing clearances?
IBM used to have floor plan specifications-- They provided diagrams showing power inlet points, etc.
IBM's units were designed to be stacked side-by-side-- service from front and back!

 

[VirutalElectrician]

I think in areas like this it's just expected but I don't understand the LB instead of a 90 on the ground

Maybe there's more than 360 degrees of turns above it? I already see 180 in the picture.

 

[kec]

I believe that conduit contains the thermostat wiring to both units.

It hits what appears to be a tee body at the very bottom of the pic.

My guess as to why is the HVAC guy doesn't own a conduit bender.

My guess is they are not electricians doing this.
Inspectors around here don't gripe much about working space as long as you can open the disconnect.

 

[Krusscher]

Maybe there's more than 360 degrees of turns above it? I already see 180 in the picture.

I mean if I were doing this run and saw that as the issue I would put a C or a box on the wall, who wants to be on their hands and knees taking covers off LB's and pulling wire?

 

[VirutalElectrician]

I mean if I were doing this run and saw that as the issue I would put a C or a box on the wall, who wants to be on their hands and knees taking covers off LB's and pulling wire?

Yeah, it doesn't make that much sense. But there it is Should have at least been an LL instead of an LB. But if you look at the layout, I'm guessing that is the control lines for the outdoor units. It looks like the first thing that was installed, and the power and freon lines came later.

 

[norcal]

My guess as to why is the HVAC guy doesn't own a conduit bender.

My guess is they are not electricians doing this.
Inspectors around here don't gripe much about working space as long as you can open the disconnect.

Based on the "service disconnect" label, I would guess HVAC techs struck again, they love those labels, & now get to use emergency disconnect labels too.

 

[infinity]

Based on the "service disconnect" label, I would guess HVAC techs struck again, they love those labels, & now get to use emergency disconnect labels too.

Yup, I see electricians put those emergency disconnect and/or service disconnect stickers on switches all of the time. I think that most of them have no idea what those labels are supposed to be used for or what the words actually mean.

 

[Dsg319]

In terms of working clearance, HVAC disconnects are probably the most common 110.26 violation I see

I always wonder which was set first. The disco, or the unit?

 

[qcroanoke]

The good part is those "look" like 600 volt disconnects........ which would have been required on a high leg system?

 

[GoldDigger]

Yup, I see electricians put those emergency disconnect and/or service disconnect stickers on switches all of the time. I think that most of them have no idea what those labels are supposed to be used for or what the words actually mean.

A service disconnect is clearly what you disconnect when you want to service the unit. Nothing odd about that. But servicing HVAC is rarely an emergency.

 

[infinity]

A service disconnect is clearly what you disconnect when you want to service the unit. Nothing odd about that. But servicing HVAC is rarely an emergency.

The required labeling of a disconnect as the "service disconnect" has a specific meaning in the NEC and it doesn't mean the disconnect that you open to work on a unit.

So if the disconnect is not the actual sevice disconnect it should not be labeled as one.

 

[LarryFine]

I always wonder which was set first. The disco, or the unit?

I'd guess the units, based on the offset in the left pipe.

 

[LarryFine]

A service disconnect is clearly what you disconnect when you want to service the unit.

It is?

 

[wwhitney]

It is?

GoldDigger uses that font (comic sans) to mean sarcasm; an explicit "/sarcasm" would be clearer.

Cheers, Wayne