Electrical inspector

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pipebender

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electrical contractor
The electrical inspector in my area L.A. County California is telling me that the lighting in a residential bathroom can't be on the load side of the GFCI I have always protected the lighting in residential bathrooms any ideas as to why? .
 
pipebender said:
The electrical inspector in my area L.A. County California is telling me that the lighting in a residential bathroom can't be on the load side of the GFCI I have always protected the lighting in residential bathrooms any ideas as to why? .
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Ask him if a dual function breaker is legal for a basement then have him show you in the code or local amendments why it can't be. Separately I would avoid gfi on lights as much as possible just to avoid complaints from customers
 
pipebender said:
The electrical inspector in my area L.A. County California is telling me that the lighting in a residential bathroom can't be on the load side of the GFCI I have always protected the lighting in residential bathrooms any ideas as to why? .
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Either he's citing a local amendment in which case he would be correct or he's wrong if he citing the NEC. Personally I would not put the lighting on the load side of the GFCI protection but it is not an NEC violation to do so.
 
I guess others from LA jurisdiction may know if there is other local rules that might apply.

NEC alone doesn't prohibit this.

Probably won't be many more years and NEC will require GFCI here anyway:cautious:
 
acin said:
210. 11 C 3 ex.
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(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits
In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, one or more 120-volt, 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom(s) receptacle outlet(s) required by 210.52(D) and any countertop and similar work surface receptacle outlets. Such circuits shall have no other outlets.
Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).

If you are not utilizing the exception then there should not be anything else on the dedicated circuit.
 
Joe.B said:
(3) Bathroom Branch Circuits
In addition to the number of branch circuits required by other parts of this section, one or more 120-volt, 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to supply bathroom(s) receptacle outlet(s) required by 210.52(D) and any countertop and similar work surface receptacle outlets. Such circuits shall have no other outlets.
Exception: Where the 20-ampere circuit supplies a single bathroom, outlets for other equipment within the same bathroom shall be permitted to be supplied in accordance with 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).

If you are not utilizing the exception then there should not be anything else on the dedicated circuit.
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I initially assumed some things, but yes you can only put lights on if the circuit only serves one bathroom, kind of sort of has little to do with whether or not the light is allowed to be GFCI protected, just where or how that protection is implemented.
 
kwired said:
I initially assumed some things, but yes you can only put lights on if the circuit only serves one bathroom, kind of sort of has little to do with whether or not the light is allowed to be GFCI protected, just where or how that protection is implemented.
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I've seen a situation where the electrician intentionally ran the vanity lights off of the GFCI because they were Edison base sockets and they were within 6' of the sink, therefore required to be protected. He explained to me that this is why he always wires each bathroom on it's own circuit, and the first outlet on the circuit is the gfci receptacle, everything's protected.
 
Joe.B said:
I've seen a situation where the electrician intentionally ran the vanity lights off of the GFCI because they were Edison base sockets and they were within 6' of the sink, therefore required to be protected. He explained to me that this is why he always wires each bathroom on it's own circuit, and the first outlet on the circuit is the gfci receptacle, everything's protected.
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Thank you this is why I protect the lighting there is also the shower light these are all on an OC SW protected by a GFCI/AFCI circuit breaker I will be meeting with him next to be continued.
 
AFAIK, the Los Angeles county follows the CA electrical code which is 99% verbatim to NEC.

At any case ask for a code reference, make sure you have your code book with you.
 
Joe.B said:
I've seen a situation where the electrician intentionally ran the vanity lights off of the GFCI because they were Edison base sockets and they were within 6' of the sink, therefore required to be protected. He explained to me that this is why he always wires each bathroom on it's own circuit, and the first outlet on the circuit is the gfci receptacle, everything's protected.
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Nothing in NEC requires this. Only thing that is fairly common is bath exhaust fan units that have instructions to GFCI protect them if located over a tub or shower. Otherwise pendants and paddle fans aren't even allowed over a tub or shower (though designers seem to want them all the time) unless perhaps you have a really high ceiling and can keep them well above the tub. Without looking I think they may be allowed if 8 feet or more above maximum water level.
 
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. (CMP-1)

Receptacle. A contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug, or for the direct connection of electrical utilization equipment designed to mate with the corresponding contact device. A single receptacle is a single contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke or strap. A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the same yoke or strap. (CMP-18)
Informational Note: A duplex receptacle is an example of a multiple receptacle that has two receptacles on the same yoke or strap.

Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles are installed. (CMP-18)

210.8 (A) Dwelling Units
All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (A)(11) and supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
1. Bathrooms
7. Sinks — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) from the top inside edge of the bowl of the sink

I suppose anyone could argue this either way, the way I read the definitions an edison base socket is a receptacle. Within a bathroom or 6 feet of a sink, it needs GFCI protection.

I'll get my popcorn...
 
Joe.B said:
Outlet. A point on the wiring system at which current is taken to supply utilization equipment. (CMP-1)

Receptacle. A contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug, or for the direct connection of electrical utilization equipment designed to mate with the corresponding contact device. A single receptacle is a single contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke or strap. A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the same yoke or strap. (CMP-18)
Informational Note: A duplex receptacle is an example of a multiple receptacle that has two receptacles on the same yoke or strap.

Receptacle Outlet. An outlet where one or more receptacles are installed. (CMP-18)

210.8 (A) Dwelling Units
All 125-volt through 250-volt receptacles installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (A)(11) and supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
1. Bathrooms
7. Sinks — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) from the top inside edge of the bowl of the sink

I suppose anyone could argue this either way, the way I read the definitions an edison base socket is a receptacle. Within a bathroom or 6 feet of a sink, it needs GFCI protection.

I'll get my popcorn...
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The edison base lamp holder is also a part of a luminaire which is also defined in art 100.

Now complicate this by the fact that there is or has been some luminaires that also contain a 5-15 receptacle.
 
kwired said:
The edison base lamp holder is also a part of a luminaire which is also defined in art 100.

Now complicate this by the fact that there is or has been some luminaires that also contain a 5-15 receptacle.
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Nothing in the definition of luminaire excludes or precludes the presence of a receptacle.
 
Joe.B said:
Nothing in the definition of luminaire excludes or precludes the presence of a receptacle.
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Maybe so.

Is is on a "yoke". Then comes what is a yoke? NEC doesn't define it and looking at common dictionary definitions it seems to be something that ties two draft animals together to allow them to work together.

Does it also accept an "attachment plug"? Answer to that can be somewhat loose answer as well though.
 
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