Phase order necessary on breaker?

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While maintaining phase order isn't strictly mandatory by code, it's a best practice for safety, efficient power distribution, and proper equipment function. Following a consistent phase sequence throughout the system, from the disconnect to the panel and beyond, avoids unnecessary complications and ensures a reliable electrical setup.
 
ptonsparky said:
A friend of mine tells the story of the apprentice saying Black, Red, Blue to himself as he walked down the hallway of a new school. The kid turned a corner and continued with Black, Blue, Red….
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I tell mine to remember red, black, blue.
they can do this with the flag colors at each end. So instead of red, white, blue, they remember red, black, blue
 
Isn't it required if more than one voltage system is within the same structure to identify each circuit conductor by phase? Meaning that in the panel a blue conductor has to go on the blue phase and red on the red, etc.
 
ruxton.stanislaw said:
While maintaining phase order isn't strictly mandatory by code, it's a best practice for safety, efficient power distribution, and proper equipment function. Following a consistent phase sequence throughout the system, from the disconnect to the panel and beyond, avoids unnecessary complications and ensures a reliable electrical setup.
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Can you expand on the words "safety", "efficiency", "reliability", and "proper equipment function" and how maintaining uniform phase rotation at different parts of the system results in those?

Maybe there are some instances where it makes a difference, but I have never found it to matter. Pretty much all your three phase equipment is going to be guess by gosh anyway.
 
200.9 Means of Identification of Terminals.
In devices or utilization equipment with polarized connections, identification of terminals to which a grounded conductor is to be connected shall be substantially white or silver in color. The identification of other terminals shall be of a readily distinguishable different color.

215.12 (C)(1) Feeders Supplied from More Than One Nominal Voltage System.
Where the premises wiring system has feeders supplied from more than one nominal voltage system, each ungrounded conductor of a feeder shall be identified by phase or line and system at all termination, connection, and splice points in compliance with 215.12(C)(1)(a) and (b).
(a) Means of Identification. The means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking tape, tagging, or other approved means.
(b) Posting of Identification Means. The method utilized for conductors originating within each feeder panelboard or similar feeder distribution equipment shall be documented in a manner that is readily available or shall be permanently posted at each feeder panelboard or similar feeder distribution equipment.

I don't see anything about needing to keep the blue conductor as A phase everywhere in the system. Only that if there are more than one voltage system (120/208 and 277/480) than they need to retain their color coding through out. In that case, blue would have to be used on only one of the two types and the other type couldn't use blue.
 
electrofelon said:
Can you expand on the words "safety", "efficiency", "reliability", and "proper equipment function" and how maintaining uniform phase rotation at different parts of the system results in those?
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You are right that it makes no difference whatsoever to the electrons; only to electricians and maintenance etc. A lot of the concept I posted involves information getting lost in translation. Look at the bigger picture and say you are balancing overall the L-L single phase loads across multiple sub-panels, but the panels are connected sporadically/in random order without specific phase identification. That makes it a lot more difficult to keep track of, especially during maintenance where it could be reconnected in a different order. It is like drawing straws; the system could be started after re-torquing/cleaning and by chance find that a significant chunk of the major L-L loads are on the same two phases.

Safety, is ensuring the correct leg of a circuit is turned off (that could be the fault of an electrician poorly depending too much on the colour of a wire or its identification). For proper equipment function, that would be phase rotation of simple motors primarily. Some VFDs will also complain about it with an error code.

Installations where a certain colour of wire or indication tape is consistently matching the respective phase make these issues a lot easier. Having three black wires for example, leaves a lot of room for error or guessing.
 
Elect117 said:
215.12 (C)(1) Feeders Supplied from More Than One Nominal Voltage System.
Where the premises wiring system has feeders supplied from more than one nominal voltage system, each ungrounded conductor of a feeder shall be identified by phase or line and system at all termination, connection, and splice points in compliance with 215.12(C)(1)(a) and (b).
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Certainly sounds like if I open a junction box and there is a blue conductor then it must be connected to the blue phase or re-identified as the color of the phase it's connected to.
 
infinity said:
Certainly sounds like if I open a junction box and there is a blue conductor then it must be connected to the blue phase or re-identified as a bl;ue conductor..
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If more than one voltage system is present. The section is Feeder Supplied from More Than One Nominal Voltage
 
* I agree that changing colors is not good workmanship * but for the sake of the discussion,

OP didn't state more than one voltage system. He said 120/208V. He could change the colors up everywhere from brown to blue to pink to orange. It wouldn't be a code violation, so much as I can tell.
 
wwhitney said:
. . . in the entire "premises wiring system," then the identification is required everywhere within the premises wiring system, "at all termination, connection, and splice points"

Cheers, Wayne
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That was my point. It's dumb that when I have two voltage systems in a building that when using two wire MC cable (Blk/Wht) for the 208Y/120 volt system (identified Blk/Red/Blu) that every black conductor not connected to the black phase must be re-identified either red or blue when connected to the other phases.
 
ruxton.stanislaw said:
A lot of the concept I posted involves information getting lost in translation.
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I find this is not an uncommon problem with trying to present technical concepts versus industry slang/practices especially when AI is involved.

There is no industry standard for color coding (this thread alone has discussed at least three different schemes for just black, blue, and red). Electricians need to understand the systems they are interfacing with, as each facility is likely different.
 
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