Solar Switching on-grid to Off-grid

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SKSolar

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As we already knew that utility companies have implemented the NEM 3.0 to their advantages while Solar companies are trying to counter it by getting homeowners to use storage batteries to store their energy for self consumption rather than selling to them at lowest rate.
It seems that the utility companies are now trying to add a fixed connection cost to add to their profits. That said, shouldn't we be better to go off-grid I supposed?

My understanding is because of anti-islanding and also of micro-grid technology we could still utilized our own solar energy when the grid is down. That said, can't we simply get rid of the grid-tied connection all together to our own advantage?

My observation is if we toggle off the main breaker in the Main Service Panel while we still have our solar backfeed breakers connected, and with micro-grid already in place, shouldn't we be self-independent? Then call the Utility company and request a Disconnect. Does that make sense?
 
SKSolar said:
...Then call the Utility company and request a Disconnect. Does that make sense?
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You make it sound so simple. Asking for a disconnect isn't the same as requesting an end to service. Actually ask for an end to service and they will hit you with more paperwork and I think they can charge you fees. They will probably also request a permit and then the AHJs can poke into what you're doing. Some AHJs don't consider a building to be safe to occupy without utility service. So it's not gonna happen, even for homeowners with the means and motivation.
Certainly not at scale without them finding ways to push pack. The more effective pushback effort to what they are doing right now is a legislative effort to cap the fee. Capping the fee at the current proposed level basically just makes it not worth it to install that one additional solar panel.
 
jaggedben said:
You make it sound so simple. Asking for a disconnect isn't the same as requesting an end to service. Actually ask for an end to service and they will hit you with more paperwork and I think they can charge you fees. They will probably also request a permit and then the AHJs can poke into what you're doing. Some AHJs don't consider a building to be safe to occupy without utility service. So it's not gonna happen, even for homeowners with the means and motivation.
Certainly not at scale without them finding ways to push pack. The more effective pushback effort to what they are doing right now is a legislative effort to cap the fee. Capping the fee at the current proposed level basically just makes it not worth it to install that one additional solar panel.
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Thanks and make sense that utility can ask AHJ for a permit for end of service.
 
FWIW, going completely off grid where the grid is already connected is rarely if ever worth the cost of doing it. I have heard people say that they want to go off grid to "stick it to the man" when they would really only be sticking it to themselves.
 
SKSolar said:
My understanding is because of anti-islanding and also of micro-grid technology we could still utilized our own solar energy when the grid is down. That said, can't we simply get rid of the grid-tied connection all together to our own advantage?
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As electrofelon said, living off-grid usually requires a lifestyle change, and designing a completely off-grid PV/microgrid system requires quite a bit of forethought if the lifestyle change needed is to be minimized. Still, it is very possible, especially for sites in temperate climates. It is far more difficult here in Ohio where we have cold winters, snow, and some extended cloudy periods. If the utilities keep moving toward high monthly fixed fees and unfair net metering policies, more people will choose the off-grid path. In my opinion, what will make a micro-grid robust enough for most people to be comfortable with it is if there are multiple power sources, i.e. solar and small wind, solar and small hydro, solar and backup fossil fuel generator, in addition to just battery storage.
 
There is a world of difference between putting in a grid-tied PV + BESS that can operate as a backup when the grid goes down for a short time and putting in a full-time off-grid system. The little PV arrays and small batteries on grid tied systems are not designed for full off-grid operation. Most PV installers these days have only worked in grid tied and have no idea how to even design an off-grid system.

For those who have not seen it, building an off-grid system that allows someone to live like they had a grid connection is simply a matter of money. Most off-grid systems have to get by on a meager budget that requires lifestyle changes to make it work. But if you have had the chance to see a system installed for a high net worth individual for their McMansion you will see what can be done if the checkbook opens wide. You can live off-grid and not even know it, but you can't afford it. :cool:
 
Isn't it Florida that requires a home to have an electrical service if it's available?
 
pv_n00b said:
There is a world of difference between putting in a grid-tied PV + BESS that can operate as a backup when the grid goes down for a short time and putting in a full-time off-grid system. The little PV arrays and small batteries on grid tied systems are not designed for full off-grid operation. Most PV installers these days have only worked in grid tied and have no idea how to even design an off-grid system.

For those who have not seen it, building an off-grid system that allows someone to live like they had a grid connection is simply a matter of money. Most off-grid systems have to get by on a meager budget that requires lifestyle changes to make it work. But if you have had the chance to see a system installed for a high net worth individual for their McMansion you will see what can be done if the checkbook opens wide. You can live off-grid and not even know it, but you can't afford it. :cool:
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You can live off grid with solar and batteries but it won't cover your wants/needs 100% of the time. 90% is doable, as is 99%, 99.9%, 99.99%... How many nines would you like to buy? :D
 
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jaggedben said:
To be fair, there is a corresponding calculation for grid reliability.
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Of course, but that's what solar and ESS backup is for. If you have grid power that is less than 100% reliable (and they all are even though they may be very close), backup is a much better investment than cutting out the grid.
 
ggunn said:
You can live off grid with solar and batteries but it won't cover your wants/needs 100% of the time. 90% is doable, as is 99%, 99.9%, 99.99%... How many nines would you like to buy? :D
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Generator.
 
SKSolar said:
I think you are right. Most States/Cities required you to have power connection or your building cannot get an occupation permit!
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But of course they cannot force anyone to keep their main service disconnect closed or prevent them from installing a PV system and ESS behind their meter. There will probably be a monthly charge from the POCO, though, even if they turn off the switch.
 
I am of the opinion that if you need electricity to live, you're doing it wrong. Electricity is a convenience, not a survival necessity.
 
ggunn said:
But of course they cannot force anyone to keep their main service disconnect closed or prevent them from installing a PV system and ESS behind their meter. There will probably be a monthly charge from the POCO, though, even if they turn off the switch.
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The whole point of this thread was about avoiding the fixed monthly charge.
 
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