enphase questions

[electrofelon]

1. We have mostly used a third party energy usage monitor that has solar capability on out systems. I am doing my first enphase system and we would still like to use this system. An enphase gateway is not cheap so I would prefer not to buy one in addition to this other setup. Is there anything I need a gateway for as far as any commissioning or setup? What about future updates or troubleshooting? Would you consider it kinda hack to not supply one?

2. With an IQ combiner or gateway, what are the CT's for? AS far as production, cant it just add up all the inverters' output to give you the total? Why production CT's. Then the consuption CT option, what do those accomplish? I assume just so you can see you total net usage or production?

3. IF I am using just the gateway, can that go anywhere and just get plugged into AC power or do the inverter output circuits need to pass thru it? (probably related to #2)

 

[jaggedben]

... Would you consider it kinda hack to not supply one?

Yes. If you don't supply one then the customer's warranty is meaningless. If you are just doing solar and will never need to modify the default grid profile then you could get away with it.

2. With an IQ combiner or gateway, what are the CT's for? AS far as production, cant it just add up all the inverters' output to give you the total? Why production CT's. Then the consuption CT option, what do those accomplish? I assume just so you can see you total net usage or production?

The production CTs are more reliable and they let you use the live view for real time usage. Microinverter measurements can be subject to comms drops or front end data transfer issues.

3. IF I am using just the gateway, can that go anywhere and just get plugged into AC power or do the inverter output circuits need to pass thru it? (probably related to #2)

They don't want you to extend the production CT's leads so you have to pass by within about 6ft. Also the gateway doesn't plug in anymore, if you meant that literally.

 

[electrofelon]

Yes. If you don't supply one then the customer's warranty is meaningless. If you are just doing solar and will never need to modify the default grid profile then you could get away with it.


The production CTs are more reliable and they let you use the live view for real time usage. Microinverter measurements can be subject to comms drops or front end data transfer issues.


They don't want you to extend the production CT's leads so you have to pass by within about 6ft. Also the gateway doesn't plug in anymore, if you meant that literally.

Thanks for the reply. What do you mean by "the customers warranty is meaningless"? It is highly unlikely we would ever need to modify the grid profile or use any advanced features. The most likely to occur negative that I can see is a micro could go out and they would likely not notice. I guess they could be instructed to look at the Leds a few times a year and make sure they are all showing the correct color (not sure yet what the different LED colors tell you and what they typically show after a failure).

So you cant see live system production without the production CT's? So what would the app show you without them, just each modules output but not a total (I havnt played around with the app yet, clearly i need to do that).

So the non-combiner type gateway is hardwired with a 120V or 240V circuit?

 

[electrofelon]

Its not really that I am trying to be cheap, but we told the customer about the energy monitor we typically provide before deciding on enphase. They liked the idea of it from a whole house energy monitoring perspective. I kinda dont want to provide him with two programs and apps to figure out, and he likely doesnt either. I guess i could install it and then it would be there and he could check in with it now and then to just make sure all 20 micros are cranking.....

 

[jaggedben]

Thanks for the reply. What do you mean by "the customers warranty is meaningless"?

Basically Enphase won't issue a replacement for a bad micro if you haven't registered that micro by connecting it to a gateway and registering the gateway to a system and account. (It's less important that it stays connected to the internet after setup.) It's how they see when and even why it stopped working, as well as how they determine when the warranty term started.

So you cant see live system production without the production CT's? So what would the app show you without them, just each modules output but not a total (I havnt played around with the app yet, clearly i need to do that).

You would see energy production that might be up to 15min out of date, or more if there are comms/data issues. They show you a watts figure too but it's just calculated from the reported energy (e.g if the micros report 1.5kwh of production during a 15min period they tell you 6kW for that period). It's not more real time than that. With the CT you can watch power go down and up when a cloud passes over, if that makes you happy.

This is not important for solar only but it's critical for batteries and some of their EV charger functions.

So the non-combiner type gateway is hardwired with a 120V or 240V circuit?

Yes, for IQ series; that is, since about 2017.

 

[electrofelon]

Basically Enphase won't issue a replacement for a bad micro if you haven't registered that micro by connecting it to a gateway and registering the gateway to a system and account. (It's less important that it stays connected to the internet after setup.) It's how they see when and even why it stopped working, as well as how they determine when the warranty term started.



You would see energy production that might be up to 15min out of date, or more if there are comms/data issues. They show you a watts figure too but it's just calculated from the reported energy (e.g if the micros report 1.5kwh of production during a 15min period they tell you 6kW for that period). It's not more real time than that. With the CT you can watch power go down and up when a cloud passes over, if that makes you happy.

This is not important for solar only but it's critical for batteries and some of their EV charger functions.


Yes, for IQ series; that is, since about 2017.

Great, thanks for the info, that helps a lot and its starting to make sense

 

[jaggedben]

Its not really that I am trying to be cheap, but we told the customer about the energy monitor we typically provide before deciding on enphase. They liked the idea of it from a whole house energy monitoring perspective. I kinda dont want to provide him with two programs and apps to figure out, and he likely doesnt either. I guess i could install it and then it would be there and he could check in with it now and then to just make sure all 20 micros are cranking.....

The Enphase app is pretty good IMO as long as your not trying to go more granular than the whole house consumption. If your alternative is one of those that gives all the fancy per-appliance consumption then I basically agree with you. But if it's not about being cheap then for warranty purposes I would still install the Enphase Gateway.

 

[electrofelon]

The Enphase app is pretty good IMO as long as your not trying to go more granular than the whole house consumption. If your alternative is one of those that gives all the fancy per-appliance consumption then I basically agree with you. But if it's not about being cheap then for warranty purposes I would still install the Enphase Gateway.

Yeah it deosnt seem wise nor professional to skip the gateway

 

[electrofelon]

One more question: So would there be a reason to go with one of these over the other?

1. Run two inverter circuits thru the gateway to two breakers in an existing panel
2. Use the IQ conbiner+gateway and then a single larger circuit back to the existing panel

 

[jaggedben]

I guess they could be instructed to look at the Leds a few times a year and make sure they are all showing the correct color (not sure yet what the different LED colors tell you and what they typically show after a failure).

Another advantage of the Gateway is that account preferences can be set to email the customer and you if the system or an individual micro stops producing. Also since you can see the system remotely as long as the gateway stays connected, you can ascertain if a customer complaint is a real problem and to what extent.

 

[jaggedben]

One more question: So would there be a reason to go with one of these over the other?

1. Run two inverter circuits thru the gateway to two breakers in an existing panel
2. Use the IQ conbiner+gateway and then a single larger circuit back to the existing panel

Not any critical reason, no. The combiner is a more straightforward way to streamline for companies that do a lot of installs; you stock one sku, you don't have to buy j-boxes and DIN rail separately and spend time assembling. Also you don't have to run a circuit for the gateway. But for any given install it doesn't matter so much.

 

[electrofelon]

Another advantage of the Gateway is that account preferences can be set to email the customer and you if the system or an individual micro stops producing. Also since you can see the system remotely as long as the gateway stays connected, you can ascertain if a customer complaint is a real problem and to what extent.

Yeah I do like that. I am always paranoid that an inverter will go out (whether micro or not) and the customer wont notice for like a year - or more!

 

[solarken]

2. With an IQ combiner or gateway, what are the CT's for? AS far as production, cant it just add up all the inverters' output to give you the total? Why production CT's. Then the consuption CT option, what do those accomplish? I assume just so you can see you total net usage or production?

I would install with the combiner with integrated Gateway. It provides revenue grade production monitoring, and it provides consumption monitoring. I always provide consumption monitoring for all systems, it gives the customer complete visibility into their system and how it impacts their energy charges, and how their habits affect their energy usage.

 

[Zee]

Yeah, having no Envoy (gateway) on a system would be a real shame.

Couple things you may or may not know:
1.The Gateway comes with consumption CTs.
So you can still provide whole home usage and production,and all on ONE nice platform.
2. If they want batteries and other nifty Enphase features you will need the Envoy. Now or eventually.
3. PANEL LEVEL MONITORING!
4. In case of failure, they can send you micro replacements right thru their portal. The correct locations and serial number of the micro ientified without even going out to the job site. VERY HANDY.

Just buy the Combiner Box. Costs same as Envoy.
Otherwise, you would have to stilll buy a weather proof box (non metallic) to put the Envoy in.......... and mess with CT wiring a lot more.......... and not be able to combine future micro circuits if you expand system.
I NEVER buy just the Envoy alone.
Plus you only need to place a single breaker in the MSP, otherwise separate breakers for Envoy and PV.

YEAH ITS EXPENSIVE