Weatherproof receptacles

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Rich30802

Member
Location
Augusta, GA
I’m just wondering what everyone thinks about wiring residential receptacles all on one 20A 120V circuit, no matter the size of the house or location. I have someone who’s wanting this done no matter what. Front of house, back of house, each side of house, all levels of house. Is this a good practice tho his reasoning is that they don’t have to worry about finding if it’s a GFCI or regular duplex. I don’t particularly like this practice of having 15, 20, or even more outside receptacles on one circuit with 1 GFCI device. They’re saying that they don’t want to have to, upon trim-out, have to use a meter out whatever to locate where the GFCI is to be place. It seems that, even if the conductors are mark, that it’s easier to just slap in regular receptacles of WR type and be done with it. I say it’s laziness to not figure out 100% of where the GFCI devices goes.

Let me know what you think and if you agree with him.

Something I’ve found online: A GFCI, whether as part of a breaker or combined with a pair of receptacles, is only monitoring for a difference between hot & neutral - i.e., watching for some current to go missing. As long as the total is less than the capacity of the GFCI device, which itself should be matched to the capacity of the overcurrent protective device (fuse or circuit breaker), it really doesn't matter how many receptacles or devices are connected.

There is a theoretical issue as follows:

A typical GFCI trips in the range of 4-6ma. You could have a bunch of devices that each leak 1-2 ma, which is generally safe. The cumulative effect of these devices on one circuit (which could easily be with as few as 4 receptacles, so you don't need "lots of receptacles" for this to happen, but the more you have, the more likely it will happen) would be enough to trip the GFCI. Yet when you go back to the "unplug everything and plug in one at a time to see where the problem is", the problem device might never be identified - and yet the tripping would continue.

More that I’ve found online:
When using a GFCI device, consider the following guidelines for downstream receptacles.
  • You can daisy chain up to 12 outlets off a single GFCI outlet, but it is recommended to limit the number to no more than 8.
  • The total load connected should not exceed the rated amperage and wattage of the GFCI.
  • Installing the GFCI receptacle on the first outlet allows GFCI protection for every wall outlet downstream, but only if the downstream outlets are connected to the load terminal of the GFCI.
 
Rich30802 said:
I’m just wondering what everyone thinks about wiring residential receptacles all on one 20A 120V circuit, no matter the size of the house or location. I have someone who’s wanting this done no matter what. Front of house, back of house, each side of house, all levels of house. Is this a good practice tho his reasoning is that they don’t have to worry about finding if it’s a GFCI or regular duplex. I don’t particularly like this practice of having 15, 20, or even more outside receptacles on one circuit with 1 GFCI device. They’re saying that they don’t want to have to, upon trim-out, have to use a meter out whatever to locate where the GFCI is to be place. It seems that, even if the conductors are mark, that it’s easier to just slap in regular receptacles of WR type and be done with it. I say it’s laziness to not figure out 100% of where the GFCI devices goes.

Let me know what you think and if you agree with him.

Something I’ve found online: A GFCI, whether as part of a breaker or combined with a pair of receptacles, is only monitoring for a difference between hot & neutral - i.e., watching for some current to go missing. As long as the total is less than the capacity of the GFCI device, which itself should be matched to the capacity of the overcurrent protective device (fuse or circuit breaker), it really doesn't matter how many receptacles or devices are connected.

There is a theoretical issue as follows:

A typical GFCI trips in the range of 4-6ma. You could have a bunch of devices that each leak 1-2 ma, which is generally safe. The cumulative effect of these devices on one circuit (which could easily be with as few as 4 receptacles, so you don't need "lots of receptacles" for this to happen, but the more you have, the more likely it will happen) would be enough to trip the GFCI. Yet when you go back to the "unplug everything and plug in one at a time to see where the problem is", the problem device might never be identified - and yet the tripping would continue.

More that I’ve found online:
When using a GFCI device, consider the following guidelines for downstream receptacles.
  • You can daisy chain up to 12 outlets off a single GFCI outlet, but it is recommended to limit the number to no more than 8.
  • The total load connected should not exceed the rated amperage and wattage of the GFCI.
  • Installing the GFCI receptacle on the first outlet allows GFCI protection for every wall outlet downstream, but only if the downstream outlets are connected to the load terminal of the GFCI.
Click to expand...
For regular smaller subdivision homes yes agree with 1 circuit… tho for upscale homes with 1st & 2nd floor outdoor porches and several on front porch and others that home owners may want I generally try and do 2 circuits of 20A; but it means upping trim-out one must be sure where to put the 2 GFCI devices. This is where this guy doesn’t agree on pulling out a meter and doing a quick 2-sec line side check. Yes, conductors for line side should be marked to life today you can’t get people to mark them all the time or possibly some changes happen too
 
I'm in the GFCI at each receptacle club. Tripping one only affects that device.
 
One other minor consideration is the amount of conductor length downstream of the GFCI device. Too much length and the resulting capacitive coupling can cause trips. Some manufacturers even have a recommended maximum circuit length of their GFCI devices.
 
Electromatic said:
One other minor consideration is the amount of conductor length downstream of the GFCI device. Too much length and the resulting capacitive coupling can cause trips. Some manufacturers even have a recommended maximum circuit length of their GFCI devices.
Click to expand...
This is the main factor, not the number of downstream receptacles but rather the total amount of downstream conductors and the amount of capacitive leakage that they may have. Just one down stream outlet but being 150 feet away from the GFCI may have more leakage than having 8 receptacles downstream but all in a small area.
 
kwired said:
This is the main factor, not the number of downstream receptacles but rather the total amount of downstream conductors and the amount of capacitive leakage that they may have. Just one down stream outlet but being 150 feet away from the GFCI may have more leakage than having 8 receptacles downstream but all in a small area.
Click to expand...
Tom D from Eaton just discussed this issue on one of his youtube presentations. He said while there is at least one manufacture with a length limit, their testing showed, with undamaged wire, it is almost impossible to have enough length where the leakage in the conductors would cause a GFCI to trip.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Tom D from Eaton just discussed this issue on one of his youtube presentations. He said while there is at least one manufacture with a length limit, their testing showed, with undamaged wire, it is almost impossible to have enough length where the leakage in the conductors would cause a GFCI to trip.
Click to expand...
That's why IMO some of the claims provided by the link in the OP are dubious.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Tom D from Eaton just discussed this issue on one of his youtube presentations. He said while there is at least one manufacture with a length limit, their testing showed, with undamaged wire, it is almost impossible to have enough length where the leakage in the conductors would cause a GFCI to trip.
Click to expand...
Ask him about underground runs.
 
infinity said:
I would want to see some technical data before I believe this to be true.
Click to expand...
I have seen the instructions with a GFCI receptacle stating no more than X amount of receptacles off the GFCI receptacle. I can't remember the brand. They may have also taken that requirement out, but I have seen it.
 
Rich30802 said:
I’m just wondering what everyone thinks about wiring residential receptacles all on one 20A 120V circuit, no matter the size of the house or location.
Click to expand...

Guess I'd think that would be pretty stupid. I like isolation and fault tolerance in my work. What happens when daughter turns on hair dryer in her room along with all the other loads? Going to take out the whole house.

I get cost savings, but really getting sick of the run everything lean as can be mentality that's taking over society.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Tom D from Eaton just discussed this issue on one of his youtube presentations. He said while there is at least one manufacture with a length limit, their testing showed, with undamaged wire, it is almost impossible to have enough length where the leakage in the conductors would cause a GFCI to trip.
Click to expand...
Perfect insulation still allows for capacitance to happen, the more conductor length you have the more capacitor you end up with. This part of why we don't put a main GFCI breaker to protect multiple branch circuits. You already raise the overall leakage level in the branch circuits before you even get to the leakage that may be in utilization equipment.
 
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