Color code

[pedro1200]

Basically grounded conductor, grounding conductor, and high leg.

Code needs less regulations, not more. We’re doing alright out here….

I disagree

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Require all conductors to be black without any identification ...that way the person working on the system has to know what he or she is doing.
No one should ever use the color as an indication of the function or voltage of a conductor.
Remember, as Tom said in post 8, prior to the 2005 code there was no prohibition on using the color green for an ungrounded circuit conductor.

 

[pedro1200]

Require all conductors to be black without any identification ...that way the person working on the system has to know what he or she is doing.
No one should ever use the color as an indication of the function or voltage of a conductor.
Remember, as Tom said in post 8, prior to the 2005 code there was no prohibition on using the color green for an ungrounded circuit con

Require all conductors to be black without any identification ...that way the person working on the system has to know what he or she is doing.
No one should ever use the color as an indication of the function or voltage of a conductor.
Remember, as Tom said in post 8, prior to the 2005 code there was no prohibition on using the color green for an ungrounded circuit conductor.

Ok in that case lets also remove the re identication rule for both ac cable and conductor 4awg

 

[pedro1200]

Require all conductors to be black without any identification ...that way the person working on the system has to know what he or she is doing.
No one should ever use the color as an indication of the function or voltage of a conductor.
Remember, as Tom said in post 8, prior to the 2005 code there was no prohibition on using the color green for an ungrounded circuit conductor.

Remember, as Tom said in post 8, prior to the 2005 code there was no prohibition on using the color green for an ungrounded circuit conductor. This argument makes no sense and you just proved my point. Its called progress and advancing the code forward. Safe guarding property and personnel……nec charging statement. 90.1 PURPOSE

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Ok in that case lets also remove the re identication rule for both ac cable and conductor 4awg

I would have no issues with that happening

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Remember, as Tom said in post 8, prior to the 2005 code there was no prohibition on using the color green for an ungrounded circuit conductor. This argument makes no sense and you just proved my point. Its called progress and advancing the code forward. Safe guarding property and personnel……nec charging statement. 90.1 PURPOSE

There is no requirement that the code try to make it safe for unqualified people to work on the system.

90.2(A) Practical Safeguarding.
The purpose of this Code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from hazards arising from the use of electricity. This Code is not intended as a design specification or an instruction manual for untrained persons.

Have a great day...there will be no agreement between us on this issue.

 

[roger]

Safe guarding property and personnel……nec charging statement. 90.1 PURPOSE

Move on to article 100.

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related
to the construction and operation of the electrical
equipment and installations and has received safety training
to recognize and avoid the hazards involved.

 

[pedro1200]

There is no requirement that the code try to make it safe for unqualified people to work on the system.


Have a great day...there will be no agreement between us on this issue.

By your logic and using this section. All conductors should be one color. No arc sign should be required or any info provided……. Good day

 

[pedro1200]

Move on to article 100.

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related
to the construction and operation of the electrical
equipment and installations and has received safety training
to recognize and avoid the hazards involved.

By your logic and using this section. All conductors should be one color. No arc sign should be required or any info provided……. Good day

 

[roger]

Ok in that case lets also remove the re identication rule for both ac cable and conductor 4awg

Here's a test for reidentifying the white conductor.



Note; all scenarios are cable assemblies in normal 120/240 volt single phase residential installations and the white conductor is not re-identified.

Also note that the answers do not not necessarily have to be code compliant, (more than one answer might work too the questions are dealing with whether an electrician would need the white conductor re-identified to know what it is doing per the scenarios.

Scenario #1 You open a box containing a single pole switch and find a white conductor and a black conductor from the same cable connected to the switch, an Electrician will know the white conductor is _______

(A) a hot conductor or switch leg
(B) an EGC
(C) a Grounded Conductor
(D) a High Leg

Scenario #2 You take a panel cover off and see a 2 conductor cable whose white conductor is connected to one pole of a multi-pole breaker and the black conductor of this cable is connected to the other pole, an Electrician will know this white conductor is being used for a _________

(A) Main Bonding Jumper
(B) GEC
(C) Grounded Conductor
(D) Hot Conductor

Scenario #3 You are trouble shooting a set of three-ways and see a white conductor connected to a terminal on the first switch you open, an Electrician would know this conductor would be a ________

(A) colored conductor that lost its pigment
(B) bleached and enriched wheat conductor
(C) skinny Caucasian guy
(D) traveler or hot conductor

Scenario #4 You open a light fixture box and find a 2 conductor cable whose white conductor is wire nutted to the blacks of the other cables in the box, the black conductor of this cable is connected to the fixture, an electrician would know this white conductor is________

(A) not a Bigot
(B) a Data Cable
(C) a hot conductor
(D) a piece of tie wire

Given the scenarios above, it is necessary to re-identify a white conductor used as a hot so that __________ will not be confused and spend the rest of the day scratching his/her head.

(A) an Electrician
(B) a fellow Electrician
(C) an Electrician working in FL
(D) a person that should not have their paws in these boxes in the first place.

IMO there is no reason for the requirement.


Roger

 

[pedro1200]

Here's a test for reidentifying the white conductor.



Note; all scenarios are cable assemblies in normal 120/240 volt single phase residential installations and the white conductor is not re-identified.

Also note that the answers do not not necessarily have to be code compliant, (more than one answer might work too the questions are dealing with whether an electrician would need the white conductor re-identified to know what it is doing per the scenarios.

Scenario #1 You open a box containing a single pole switch and find a white conductor and a black conductor from the same cable connected to the switch, an Electrician will know the white conductor is _______

(A) a hot conductor or switch leg
(B) an EGC
(C) a Grounded Conductor
(D) a High Leg

Scenario #2 You take a panel cover off and see a 2 conductor cable whose white conductor is connected to one pole of a multi-pole breaker and the black conductor of this cable is connected to the other pole, an Electrician will know this white conductor is being used for a _________

(A) Main Bonding Jumper
(B) GEC
(C) Grounded Conductor
(D) Hot Conductor

Scenario #3 You are trouble shooting a set of three-ways and see a white conductor connected to a terminal on the first switch you open, an Electrician would know this conductor would be a ________

(A) colored conductor that lost its pigment
(B) bleached and enriched wheat conductor
(C) skinny Caucasian guy
(D) traveler or hot conductor

Scenario #4 You open a light fixture box and find a 2 conductor cable whose white conductor is wire nutted to the blacks of the other cables in the box, the black conductor of this cable is connected to the fixture, an electrician would know this white conductor is________

(A) not a Bigot
(B) a Data Cable
(C) a hot conductor
(D) a piece of tie wire

Given the scenarios above, it is necessary to re-identify a white conductor used as a hot so that __________ will not be confused and spend the rest of the day scratching his/her head.

(A) an Electrician
(B) a fellow Electrician
(C) an Electrician working in FL
(D) a person that should not have their paws in these boxes in the first place.

IMO there is no reason for the requirement.


Roge

Here's a test for reidentifying the white conductor.



Note; all scenarios are cable assemblies in normal 120/240 volt single phase residential installations and the white conductor is not re-identified.

Also note that the answers do not not necessarily have to be code compliant, (more than one answer might work too the questions are dealing with whether an electrician would need the white conductor re-identified to know what it is doing per the scenarios.

Scenario #1 You open a box containing a single pole switch and find a white conductor and a black conductor from the same cable connected to the switch, an Electrician will know the white conductor is _______

(A) a hot conductor or switch leg
(B) an EGC
(C) a Grounded Conductor
(D) a High Leg

Scenario #2 You take a panel cover off and see a 2 conductor cable whose white conductor is connected to one pole of a multi-pole breaker and the black conductor of this cable is connected to the other pole, an Electrician will know this white conductor is being used for a _________

(A) Main Bonding Jumper
(B) GEC
(C) Grounded Conductor
(D) Hot Conductor

Scenario #3 You are trouble shooting a set of three-ways and see a white conductor connected to a terminal on the first switch you open, an Electrician would know this conductor would be a ________

(A) colored conductor that lost its pigment
(B) bleached and enriched wheat conductor
(C) skinny Caucasian guy
(D) traveler or hot conductor

Scenario #4 You open a light fixture box and find a 2 conductor cable whose white conductor is wire nutted to the blacks of the other cables in the box, the black conductor of this cable is connected to the fixture, an electrician would know this white conductor is________

(A) not a Bigot
(B) a Data Cable
(C) a hot conductor
(D) a piece of tie wire

Given the scenarios above, it is necessary to re-identify a white conductor used as a hot so that __________ will not be confused and spend the rest of the day scratching his/her head.

(A) an Electrician
(B) a fellow Electrician
(C) an Electrician working in FL
(D) a person that should not have their paws in these boxes in the first place.

IMO there is no reason for the requirement.


Roger

I thought we didn’t assume anything by the color of the wire. In all scenarios you assume nothing and test everything. By your logic the same applies to my argument…… thank you…….. good day

 

[roger]

I thought we didn’t assume anything by the color of the wire. In all scenarios you assume nothing and test everything. By your logic the same applies to my argument…… thank you…….. good day

Did you hear a whoosh sound?

 

[OldBroadcastTech]

I am slightly color blind as well. Has messed me up a few times. When I was in school 53 years ago they got me a summer job wiring control panels in a shop. We used to mount all the components and then the first thing we would do is take the print and wire all the neutrals.

They had me work with an old timer for a week or two and then turned me loose to wire my first panel on my own. So I got started and was pretty proud of the way it was going got the neutrals done and started on the other circuits. I was about 90% done when the boss stopped by to have a look.

"What's all the pink wire for"? I had mistaken light pink for white for all the neutrals. It still looked like white to me until I held a white wire next to it. I if I recall that panel went to the Cost Guard Station in Cape May NJ. Wonder if it is still in service. Probably not.

He didn't have me change the pink the panel had to get shipped.

Red & Brown can be an issue as well. Sometimes light yellow and white.

A case of red-green-orange-brown color blindness here

I'm OK outside in sunlight, but under florescents, OH BOY

A few years back I was installing a new automation system ( for four stations total) and the specs called for using 25-pair telco cable for the sat receiver relay closures to the audio switcher control

I had a h*ll of a time with red-blue and purple-brown pairs

lucky for me I was pre-wiring them at home and could call one of the sons over to make sure I had it right

and makers of Cat-5 cable with barely-different green and brown colors should be executed.....painfully

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

The correct answer to all is, Qualified Person


Pedro1200, Many areas have amendments addressing color coding of different systems. Even with that many don't follow them. Tulsa being one of them. Some more strict than others.

I'm going to throw you a bone. 210.5(C)(1)
Please don't take it out of context.

Then swing on over to 200.7 and give it a read. Article 200 is ?

I think you will find most follow some type of common practice color coding out side the context of the NEC. With that being said it is important to understand and follow what the NEC says.

Your well with your rights to send in a proposal for change.

One of my pet peeves is using black/white/ green for 277 volt exit/ em lights. Then they get hooked up to the 120 lead.
With proper training it no big deal. The issue around here is an apprentice sees black and hooks it to black. Usually they are just told to hang them. Pretty easy to say "hey hook them up 277" and ask you know which lead. Or wait for them to ask what voltage and then say hey.

So what if it had a piece of tape on it for the common practice colors or use MC with BR,OR or Yellow.

Let's look at the multi volt LED fixtures these days as an example. You have a black and white lead for 120-277 from the fixture.
I get ask all the time will they work on 208 or 240. The question is usually generated by the white lead.

It all goes back to training and qualified persons. The NEC can't fix that no matter what's written.

We're really trying to help you. Take five and think about it.

 

[pedro1200]

The correct answer to all is, Qualified Person


Pedro1200, Many areas have amendments addressing color coding of different systems. Even with that many don't follow them. Tulsa being one of them. Some more strict than others.

I'm going to throw you a bone. 210.5(C)(1)
Please don't take it out of context.

Then swing on over to 200.7 and give it a read. Article 200 is ?

I think you will find most follow some type of common practice color coding out side the context of the NEC. With that being said it is important to understand and follow what the NEC says.

Your well with your rights to send in a proposal for change.

One of my pet peeves is using black/white/ green for 277 volt exit/ em lights. Then they get hooked up to the 120 lead.
With proper training it no big deal. The issue around here is an apprentice sees black and hooks it to black. Usually they are just told to hang them. Pretty easy to say "hey hook them up 277" and ask you know which lead. Or wait for them to ask what voltage and then say hey.

So what if it had a piece of tape on it for the common practice colors or use MC with BR,OR or Yellow.

Let's look at the multi volt LED fixtures these days as an example. You have a black and white lead for 120-277 from the fixture.
I get ask all the time will they work on 208 or 240. The question is usually generated by the white lead.

It all goes back to training and qualified persons. The NEC can't fix that no matter what's written.

We're really trying to help you. Take five and think about it.

I hear you .Im well aware of those article sections as Im ME and. PE. I was just making a point that the nec at times can be somewhat inconsistent. And people never ask “why”. Then again we’re just installers

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

I hear you .Im well aware of those article sections as Im ME and. PE. I was just making a point that the nec at times can be somewhat inconsistent. And people never ask “why”. Then again we’re just installers

You can say that again. Every time I think I got it I read something that says darn it I was wrong again. Sorry I was not aware you were an engineer. If we don't ask we never get an accurate answer.

I worked in an area that was very strict on color coding. Every j box had to be left open for inspection. The amendment we're very clear on color coding for system(s) voltage.

Even on multifamily that had a 120/208 three phase service. Special order NM had to be used. If the unit was single phase red and blue the NM conductors also had to follow the line color. Travelers for three ways even had an exception. Caught a lot of contractors off guard on rough inspection.

Single phase 120/240 was exempt for obvious reasons. It's single phase.
So it's out there.

Now they have even changed the amendments to read NM in Multifamily had to be feed with single phase 120/240 service limited to three floors.

If the apartments had three phase service it now has to be pipe or MC.

 

[tortuga]

Exactly!
This is what I call 4 answers to a code question
1. Code answer
2. AHJ answer
3. Toms answer
4. Truck answer

#4 rules for wire colors

Whats the truck answer? is that me yelling in the truck that I cant find the phase tape?

 

[ptonsparky]

Whats the truck answer? is that me yelling in the truck that I cant find the phase tape?

Close.
Whatever is on it.