GFCI

T

The Victor

Member
Location
Saugus, Ca
Occupation
Appliance Technician
I have a question regarding a GFCI behind a washer and dryer tower. I understand that a GFCI is required behind a washer and dryer but in this case this is a laundry closet with a laundry tower if the GFCI happens to trip, how is a customer supposed to reset it? Is it still required to have a GFCI, if it is not accessible? Thank you in advance for any input.
 
Two things, the receptacle requires GFCI protection and the device providing the protection needs to be readily accessible. The GFCI receptacle is not permitted behind the appliance.

Welcome to the Forum .
 
I see this frequently but can never understand why. GFCI receptacle behind appliance and AFCI at panel. Installing a DF breakers with standard receptacle behind appliance is less $$ and meets the NEC for access requirements.
 
curt swartz said:
I see this frequently but can never understand why.
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While panel flippers wont touch inside wiring or stock the devices, service pro’s won’t stock enough circuit-breaker brands.

Since there is no violation B4 occupancy, more pro’s may prefer outlet resets to miss-matched breakers.
 
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The Victor said:
I have a question regarding a GFCI behind a washer and dryer tower. I understand that a GFCI is required behind a washer and dryer but in this case this is a laundry closet with a laundry tower if the GFCI happens to trip, how is a customer supposed to reset it? Is it still required to have a GFCI, if it is not accessible? Thank you in advance for any input.
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Thank you!
 
ramsy said:
While panel flippers wont touch inside wiring or stock the devices, service pro’s won’t stock enough circuit-breaker brands.

Since there is no violation B4 occupancy, more pro’s may prefer outlet resets to miss-matched breakers.
Click to expand...
Unless you have local codes that say otherwise a panel change doesn't require updating receptacles to have GFCI protection where otherwise required by current code. Unless maybe I missed something in 2020 or 2023? We skipped 2020 here and went from 2017 to 2023 so I'm not as up to what all changed in 2020 as I would have been if we actually had to apply it. We did amend 210.8(A) to essentially be same as it was in 2017 also so for most part no ranges, dryers or air conditioners are being required to have GFCI protection at dwellings.
 
kwired said:
Unless you have local codes that say otherwise a panel change doesn't require updating receptacles to have GFCI protection where otherwise required by current code. Unless maybe I missed something in 2020 or 2023? We skipped 2020 here and went from 2017 to 2023 so I'm not as up to what all changed in 2020 as I would have been if we actually had to apply it. We did amend 210.8(A) to essentially be same as it was in 2017 also so for most part no ranges, dryers or air conditioners are being required to have GFCI protection at dwellings.
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Sometimes I think I should take a code class again, but not often enough to do it.
 
ptonsparky said:
Sometimes I think I should take a code class again, but not often enough to do it.
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I know you retired, do you still take CEU's to be able to keep up your license or have you let it expire?

Last couple renewal cycles I took on line classes for CEU's, can't recall of top my head which one but it let you take the course for free only had to pay if you wanted a certificate to send to your AHJ. Pretty much all the content of the course was over changes in latest NEC edition.
 
The Victor said:
I have a question regarding a GFCI behind a washer and dryer tower. I understand that a GFCI is required behind a washer and dryer but in this case this is a laundry closet with a laundry tower if the GFCI happens to trip, how is a customer supposed to reset it? Is it still required to have a GFCI, if it is not accessible? Thank you in advance for any input.
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I rough in two outlets on the 20A laundry circuit required by 210.11(C)(3) one thats reachable for an iron or other utility use that has the GFCI near the laundry sink or in your case reachable inside the closet for a iron then the outlet behind the washer is on the load side of that GFCI.
kwired said:
Unless you have local codes that say otherwise a panel change doesn't require updating receptacles to have GFCI protection where otherwise required by current code. Unless maybe I missed something in 2020 or 2023?
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Yeah there is no such 'code requirement' for the GFCI on panel changes, as long as your doing a panel swap on grandma's house and its all original like the day she bought it in 1946.

The reason EC's are doing it is a trend I have seen with AHJ inspectors is if they come out to inspect a panel swap and see old 2-wire circuits (Non grounded) that were allowed by a previous code they want see a GFCI breaker on those 2-wire circuits
or that
that all the existing receptacles are two prong, 406.4(D).
and none of the light fixtures have been replaced with ones with exposed metal parts (410.42)
Next home inspector for the home insurance will require GFCI's up to current code as part of underwriting a new homeowners policy on a house sale.
The old metal boxes are too small for GFCI devices, or opening them up reveals more DIY violations that your now responsible for, so the GFCI breakers go in. Also GFCI breakers are guaranteed to be accessible.

However either way GFCI or not for an appliance installer just replacing any washer it always has to be connected to an actual equipment ground per 250.114(3)(b) no exceptions like 406.4(D). The equipment ground can be run as per 250.130(C)
 
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kwired said:
I know you retired, do you still take CEU's to be able to keep up your license or have you let it expire?

Last couple renewal cycles I took on line classes for CEU's, can't recall of top my head which one but it let you take the course for free only had to pay if you wanted a certificate to send to your AHJ. Pretty much all the content of the course was over changes in latest NEC edition.
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I would like to try that class if you can figure out what it was.

I let my license expire. Occasionally wish I had it yet. Occasionally.
 
pipe_bender said:
So wait if a washer is on a old ungrounded circuit I can't just install a GFCI? You have to ground the washer?
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Unless you find an unlikely appliance made with a 2-prong cord:
250.114 Exception:
Listed tools, listed appliances, and listed equipment covered in 250.114(2) through (4) shall not be required to be connected to an equipment grounding conductor where protected by a system of double insulation or its equivalent. Double insulated equipment shall be distinctively marked.
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