Article 240.24

yordanys

yordanys

Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrician
Good Afternoon, Everyone.

Looking for advice, and I'm feeling very frustrated at this point. Many thanks

I recently had an inspection result on 4/8/2025 in a very old building located in Bronx, NY. I have an objection regarding article 240.24. My overcurrent protection was higher than 6 feet 7 inches, but I have a working platform, which I took for the inspector to work during the inspection. I always bring my NEC book to every inspection, and after that happened, I asked him politely... Would you please measure from the top of the working platform?

things when South :( after the NYC Inspector asked for the article section but refused to read the entire NEC code/section.

I got this response from the assistant chief of the Bronx, NY.


"I told you over the phone that you should reach out to the QA unit regarding this. I told you that if you are replacing the entire panel interior "the guts" that it I felt it is within an inspector's discretion to enforce 240.24. But I said that to avoid any confusion to read out QA and also you can request for code interpretation or special permission"
 
When I have had that issue here the platform we had was thrown together plywood deck outdoors inspector said had to be permanent and able to withstand the outdoor wet environment and it had the size of the working space 110.26, so we had a concrete guy pour a platform $$$$.
 
Picture? How big is the working platform and where is it? Is it structural? Is it easily removable? I'd have to see it before I would say the inspector is wrong.

If all that checks out, since you already made 'em mad, you might as well go ahead and keep fighting them over it. Depends how long you can hold out and how much trouble you can cause.
 
pipe_bender said:
When I have had that issue here the platform we had was thrown together plywood deck outdoors inspector said had to be permanent and able to withstand the outdoor wet environment and it had the size of the working space 110.26, so we had a concrete guy pour a platform $$$$.
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NEC Inspector said:
Picture? How big is the working platform and where is it? Is it structural? Is it easily removable? I'd have to see it before I would say the inspector is wrong.

If all that checks out, since you already made 'em mad, you might as well go ahead and keep fighting them over it. Depends how long you can hold out and how much trouble you can cause.
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That's why I'm confused. Section 240.24 doesn't tell you how the working platform has to be.

Definition of Working Platform:

A working platform is an elevated surface used as a means of access to or from a place of work. It provides safe and stable access for people performing tasks at height. Working platforms can be fixed or mobile and are used for tasks such as repair, maintenance, and painting.
 
IMO the working platform would need to meet the minimum requirements for the working space however since there is no NEC definition for a working platform there is room for interpretation.
 
infinity said:
IMO the working platform would need to meet the minimum requirements for the working space however since there is no NEC definition for a working platform there is room for interpretation.
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This building is 80 years old. Have no issues with working clearance (110.26) more than 3 1/2 feet in front of the panels. We kept all the panel enclosures in place, removed all the fusible panel guts, and replaced them with a new listed retrofitting panel kit(Eaton)and breakers. We use this platform to work on the panels.

The platform is 8 inches high
26.5" x 10.5"
removable
 
yordanys said:
That's why I'm confused. Section 240.24 doesn't tell you how the working platform has to be.

Definition of Working Platform:

A working platform is an elevated surface used as a means of access to or from a place of work. It provides safe and stable access for people performing tasks at height. Working platforms can be fixed or mobile and are used for tasks such as repair, maintenance, and painting.
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The platform would have to meet the requirements of the building code for you to install it in a building, regardless of whether it is serving electrical equipment or not.

I would make you meet basic 40 pounds per square ft loading like any other floor or deck. Which would be really, really easy on a minimum size platform. And I wouldn't accept a glorified stepstool that is going to disappear as soon as I walk away. Or a platform with no guardrails if it's over 30" to the floor. Or a platform made of materials that are too flammable for the location per building code. Or an untreated wooden platform directly on concrete or masonry that is in direct contact with the earth. Basic stuff like that, I would pull from the building code.

I'm guessing that they are not giving you a code section for why they are not accepting the work platform?
 
yordanys said:
The platform is 8 inches high
26.5" x 10.5"
removable
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So it's not permanent? Does it make the panel OCPD's readily accessible if it's not in place?

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible).
Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to take actions such as to use tools (other than keys), to climb over or under, to remove obstacles, or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth. (CMP-1)
Informational Note: Use of keys is a common practice under controlled or supervised conditions and a common alternative to the ready access requirements under such supervised conditions as provided elsewhere in the NEC.
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NEC Inspector said:
The platform would have to meet the requirements of the building code for you to install it in a building, regardless of whether it is serving electrical equipment or not.

I would make you meet basic 40 pounds per square ft loading like any other floor or deck. Which would be really, really easy on a minimum size platform. And I wouldn't accept a glorified stepstool that is going to disappear as soon as I walk away. Or a platform with no guardrails if it's over 30" to the floor. Or a platform made of materials that are too flammable for the location per building code. Or an untreated wooden platform directly on concrete or masonry that is in direct contact with the earth. Basic stuff like that, I would pull from the building code.

I'm guessing that they are not giving you a code section for why they are not accepting the work platform?
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Here in NYC, an inspector can not give you a violation without adding the Section of the NEC

YES, they are giving me an objection
Floor ALL:230-SERVICE DISCONNECT IS MORE THAN 6'7" ABOVE FLOOR
Art 240.24 / Art 404.8(A) - Breakers Inside New Apt Sub Panels Over 6 Feet 7 Inches From Floor.
Open | 04/08/2025 That's what they gave me
 
Guys, this retrofitting kit's panels were installed on existing building enclosures. Can those buildings be grandfathered?
 
I wouldn't count a platform that is smaller than the required working space either, especially removable without a tool.

"Grandfathering" is completely up to interpretation because the Existing Building code allows you to make a repair like you have, except that the inspector will always have the ability to say that something is dangerous and needs to be addressed in that case.

I would have you screw a working space sized platform down to the floor and call it good. A couple 2x8s with some plywood on top, a few tapcons, you would be good. There isn't anything in the required working space... right? Otherwise, the equipment would need to be lowered.
 
"Grandfathering" is completely up to interpretation because the Existing Building code allows you to make a repair like you have, except that the inspector will always have the ability to say that something is dangerous and needs to be addressed in that case."

What can be dangerous about improving the safety of the building and personnel by removing all the fuses and installing breakers
 
yordanys said:
The inspector told me he doesn't want anything in front of the panel because it can become a tripping hazard :(
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Oh. Unless it’s an egress path or something, he’s completely wrong. The fabled “tripping hazard” does not exist in any code anywhere that I know of.
 
I take it NJ doesn't have a state Electrical Inspector that governs and issues interpretations. If it does you should ask them for a ruling
 
yordanys said:
The inspector told me he doesn't want anything in front of the panel because it can become a tripping hazard :(
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Well to some extent can't be any tripping hazard within the required working space, if your "platform" is large enough to be that working space then the platform itself is not violating the working space.

However you say this platform is removeable, I don't know of many inspectors that will allow that, though it maybe is difficult to give any justification for them to do so since NEC doesn't really prohibit portable or state it must be something fixed. At same time with the logic used here one could say a switch ten feet off the floor is readily accessible and has required working space IF you have a scissor lift on site that has required working space on it's platform and the thing can be easily maneuvered into position to get to that switch.

I could possibly see allowing some sort of pull down platform that is more or less permanently attached in a manner that it is easy to pull down and gain the required access. That's probably going to still be questionable to many inspectors but may have better chance of them allowing over something that is easily carried away.

Just my thoughts.
 
roger said:
I take it NJ doesn't have a state Electrical Inspector that governs and issues interpretations. If it does you should ask them for a ruling
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Actually we do have one (the Division of Community Affairs) and they're pretty good at responding to your questions and intervening when necessary. I believe that the OP is referencing a job across the river in New York City.
 
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